Dude, I think getting out at 18 years is absolute lunacy. Here are my thoughts on some reasons why:

1. Money. You make good money now. You will not when you get out. It will take me maybe 8 years to make in the airlines what I made when I got out of the AF at 12 years. My airline job pays roughly 45% of what I made active duty. I do the reserve gig on the side now and I'm still NOWHERE close to what I was making before and won't be for several years. It's tougher than it sounds to cut back on your lifestyle to the degree we need to. Are you ready for that? Really? If you make it til 20, you will be paid just to breathe every day for the rest of your life. I don't know what you'd make in retirement, but for argument, let's just say you'd make 20K/year in active duty retirement (low estimate, I suspect) and you'd retire active duty at age 42. You're giving up 360K in retirement money until age 60, when you could possibly pick up less in reserve retirement. If they offered you a 360K bonus (or whatever the real number is) to stay in for 2 years, would that help you stay? They are offering it...in the form of active duty retirement.

2. Health care. You never think twice about it on active duty because you don't pay a dime. We now get bills in the mail every time the kids go to the pediatrician. That sucks. If I lose my job, I lose my insurance. That worries me. If you retire from AD, you will always have health insurance no matter what. That's a BIG DEAL. My inlaws are retired and completely healthy. They pay something like $1800 a month for health insurance. Did I mention that they are completely healthy? Health care costs/insurance costs are only going uphill. While fees may rise for Tricare down the road, at least you know it's there for you and they can't take it away if you lose your job, get sick, etc.

3. Security. There is absolutely none on the outside. I have no idea if I will have a job this time next year. I will NOT have an active duty retirement to help out with the bills if I get furloughed. There is a lot of uncertainty in this industry and that will never change. Though active duty retirement obviously doesn't save you from furlough, it is a financial and health care safety net if things go south.

4. Commuting to an airline job sucks and sitting reserve at an airline job sucks. I do both and sounds like you would too, at least at first. I suggest you check out the search function of this thread and you can read a lot about that stuff. That obviously doesn't change based on whether you retire off AD or not, but chalk it up in the "grass ain't totally green" and "drudgery" categories.

5. The dudes who mentioned it are right. You can't just serve 2 years in the reserves and pick up a reserve retirement...it's 6 yrs min. Plus, it will take you a LONG TIME to earn enough points to cover those 2 years to pick up active duty retirement...unless you can pick up some orders and/or work every day off you have in the airlines plus taking some mil leave to work more. If you are going to work that much anyway, why not just stay active duty?

I hope I don't sound harsh...don't mean to be. I just got out in September, so believe me I know all the things going through your mind. But I'm now out here without the safety net of an active duty retirement, and it SUCKS. I don't even know you and I practically feel like begging you to stay those 2 more years. I think you'd be absolutely crazy to punch out now. I think you would look back on that decision as a terrible mistake.

 

I agree with T-Bone, suck it up for the next few years, I don't think you'll regret it when you are in the check of the month club.

 

Just to jump on the bandwagon, there is almost no way in the world you can come out financially ahead by getting out right now. Approaching my MSR, i've done the math EVERY way possible. It almost doesn't doesn't make sense to leave at 10 years when you run just pure numbers. I haven't run the numbers for 18 years, but I would guess you would probably need to leave and take a job making in the 200,000-300,000 to recoup the financial loss you are going to sustain by not taking that active duty retirement (unless you already have a couple mil in your retirement account). I know you have to be a smart guy to be where you are. I just hope you have done the math. Gosh, I think I would do my last two years in the sandbox if I had to. The airlines aren't hiring right now. Sorry to ramble, but I hope we've given you something to really think about (as if you hadn't already).

I have a buddy that is punching at 15-16 next year that I kick in the nuts every day. He will be DH job complete and likely to make O-5 with 3 of his last 5 years probably in a cushy joint job. He thinks he will make money where some of his buddies are at United. Some guys just won't listen to reason (and aren't very savvy at math).

 

Dear God man, I can't believe you're even considering bailing at 18 years. I assume you're looking at the airlines, but let me tell you the grass is NOT greener on the outside! I always hear the active duty guys complain about missing holidays, birthdays, weekends, etc. That's luck of the draw. Guess what - at the airline, you'll pretty much be GUARANTEED to miss WAY more of those things for possibly many years to come. And that's IF you don't get furloughed.

Ask yourself why most reservists are taking as much mil leave as possible?

 

My Dad would have kicked my a@# for suggesting what you are describing. I just filed for AF retirement after 21 years; I know I'll have my retired pay and benefits while I transition to my next career. Guaranteed retirement pay...and benefits...forever! Stay the course, suck it up, and get 20...all the way to the bank. Keep the faith!

 

Mox,

I've personally known 2 guys who have done this exact thing a few years ago. Both got out as Majors and went directly to Reserve units flying 141s. They were able to get promoted to LtCol and then to 0-6, and they accrued enough time to get the 3 years of AD points before they hit their 30yr HYT. They didn't do long-term orders, they just flew long trips and such. They also had 13yrs of seniority with their respective airline. Helluva gamble but they were successful.
I have however know another guy, who worked his ass off to get the 20yr AD retirement and came up short. He however did not have the 17yrs behind him, i believe he was at about 12 went he started...
Either way, it's a helluva gamble.
I retired 1 May last year and it's been wonderful... I don't really need the retirement money and can invest it all but it a great feeling to know that you have it, if needed.
Should you go with your plan, I would choose my Reserve Transport unit carefully.

Just some thoughts.

Good luck,
Lifter

 

wow, thanks for all the response...I didn't expect that much. And a big thank you to all of those who are slapping me in the face and throwing ice water on me and I really mean that, because I was hoping to get a reality check. (and it was kind of the response I expected)

...and thanks to Lifter too for the info on your buds, that it is indeed possible. But it is a huge gamble, I do know that at this point....especially with all the information flowing in the other threads about the current environment.

It all sounds so tempting reading other threads about guys punching at 12 or 14 years... an overwhelming consensus that getting out was the thing to do because of QOL issues and (at least in the Guard) more control of your schedule. But yes I realize that my position at 17-18 is different. And that "free money just for breathing" thing is what's kept me going this far.

I'm already on my last tour...no need or real chance to PCS again, 3 years minimum time on station before a CONUS-to-CONUS PCS (I could volunteer for a remote I suppose....not really appealing). Moved to my current unit last year with 4 years left figuring I could coast pretty easily. Some days I'm not so sure...or maybe I've just been in a bad mood these last couple weeks. (currently deployed to Djibouti!)

Already took care of the ATP when I mulled this over a couple years ago, I already wanted to start positioning myself. Class I is first on my list for when I get back home. So I'm just trying to learn all I can and be ready if I do decide to step off that ledge. And if I stay in, well, then I'm that much more prepared for when that calendar hits 20.

Thanks again, I'll be around
Mox

 

Mox Nix,

I just went through the decison to stay or go and I am staying in the AF. Search my "Shadow95" on the forum and you will see a lot of good replys to my question.

I researched the Hell out of the Pros and Cons of whether to punch from the AF or not and came up with one definitive conclusion....its all depending on YOUR situation. For me, to punch into the airlines now, with a wife (stay at home Mom) and three kids did not make any sense to me whatsoever, but then again that worked for me; you may be different.

If you are taking any advice, take a real close look at what is important to you and your family (if applicable) then talk to as many of your friends who have "been there and done that". When the time comes I am hoping the decision will be very clear to you. Good luck.

 

Mox,

I bailed at 14 and it went GREAT for me. But I bailed in 2002--a tough time but nothing like the current lockdown on hiring I see right now.

Right now, the ONLY domestic operations I see hiring are NetJets and World Airways. While both are good companies, neither can offer you the pay, benefits, or security another 3 years in the military can offer. Why don't you get your happy @ss back to work at the base, then call me in about a year and a half? I'll bet there will be a skosh more action then, and you'll have TRICARE and a retirement check to keep the wolves from the door as you chart your next step.

 

Mox,

Solid advice above. I am right there with you. Occasionally my mood sours and I start to ask the same questions. Stick around...when you hit 20 you'll wonder what you were thinking.

The grass appears greener but unless you are already in the club, it is brown. If you make the leap, plan on waiting outside in line behind the velvet ropes with thousands of others on the off chance the bouncer lets you in.

Good luck and keep your head up.