Your boy, Bush, and you have seemed to have forgotten that you can't separate "authority" and "accoutability"; guess I shouldn't even mention the last one "responsibility".

Your boy messed up. And yes I'm mad about it. He has an excuse for everything. Barak Hussein Obama's got a lot of cleaning up to do.

 

You're correct, he does have the responsibility of protecting this nation, and he was given the authority by congress, and the UN to take action, and he is accountable. And no, he didn't screw up: he acted on the best information at the time to protect our nation. That's not to say mistakes haven't been made, but in the grand scheme of things it was the right call at the time. Your emotion (being mad about it) appears to be a significant factor in your assessment of what events transpired.

I've provided you with factual statements from others in positions of power stating that they all agreed with the assessment Iraq posed a serious threat to our country and our allies. Since those statements many have been rather successful at convincing people such as yourself that it was the lone cowboy Bush who went off on his own, whereas Bush has stood by his responsibility of defending this nation. I don't agree with the man on a lot of his positions, but I have to admire his ability to put the country ahead of his popularity and poll numbers.

Nothing personal, but you don't appear to be willing to discuss this issue based on actual facts, and thus I no longer will engage in any further discussion with you on the topic. Good day to you, sir.

 

That's probably for the best. I appreciate your professionalism.

 

And I yours. Thank you.

 

Don't thank him...as soon as he starts throwing around the "your boy Bush" comments he loses all credibility. No objectivity, no academic discussion, no rational arguments. You never said Bush was "your boy," you merely stated the situation as you saw it. He resorted to straw man arguments. You stayed professional, he got emotional.

 

It's an emotional topic Duece. At least to some of us. Nonetheless, My last post to Gunship was less than professional. For that, I apologize to Gunship. I do not however cede my position. I think that at this point we've all made up our minds about Bush/Iraq, we've just gotta hope that something good comes out of this fiasco.

 

Pines,

Maybe I wasn't very clear, let's try again. I'm starting from a long term view and how that affects national security. Let's leave the run up to Iraq to the side, even I know BIG mistakes have been made but it's a separate discussion.

One hundred years ago mid-east instability had negligible affect on this country, big distance with slow transportation. Today problems go global real quick. Do you agree that we must confront mid-east instability in some fashion? I don't mean war only but the whole range of conflict resolution. You said you are not an isolationist so I assume yes, solve the problem in some fashion.

Now how long? Yes, I just made a big jump to make a point. Regardless of the method of problem solving, negotiations or outright war, should it be solved even if it takes a long time? That's my point.

Even if the run up had problems it is our problem now. We must fix it. I don't think we broke Iraq but we were the final straw in a web of HUGE problems and we must see it through.

How did I do? Clear as mud or am I off track?

All good discussions here. I don't agree with everybody here but keep the points coming. National security as it pertains to the military is very near and dear to the hearts of us that wore/wear the uniform.

Take care,

SC

 

320,

Don't give up any of your positions. I really want to know how others feel. I may just learn something along the way.

Let's try this, does any one thing really get you going or is it just you feel Bush's Foreign Policy/Military Doctrine stinks? No politics, I don't want to see the thread closed, keep it on the big picture stuff.

For example: The one thing that gets me going is his former SECDEF. IMO Don R. was NOT the right guy for the job. His view on transforming the military into a smaller, more technical force was the worst timing possible as we launched into a conventional ground war. He made many other mistakes as well that take to long to type. Bush's biggest mistake was not accepting Don's resignation after Abu Graib (sp?) and the Bremmer BS. The war clearly took a turn for the worse after that.

SC

 

Gunship,
In case you haven't heard, the Senate Intelligence Committe has concluded that Bush and his administration in fact did use false intelligence to build their case for Iraq. I wouldn't call this "his ability to put the country ahead of his poularity," more like "Self before service." I think it's time to start considering what might be an ugly truth. The report can be found on the Senate web site but here's a quick one from the NY Times......

WASHINGTON — A long-delayed Senate report endorsed by Democrats and some Republicans has concluded that President Bush and his aides built the public case for war against Iraq by exaggerating available intelligence and by ignoring disagreements among spy agencies about Iraq’s weapons programs and Saddam Hussein’s links to Al Qaeda.

 

Here's the article link for those interested...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/wa...=1&oref=slogin