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III Corps 05-22-2009 10:47 AM


Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer (Post 615405)

IIICorps stated in an earlier post that there were no A-series aircraft in the Air Force at the time the TFX program was underway. I don't think the SLUF was flying yet (which did fly with both the Navy and Air Force).

The A-1 Skyraider started flying in the Air Force in the 1963. (1963-1972)

Dang.. my history is failing me. Right.. the A-1. It was in my list when graduating from UPT. 3 guys got one and two were lost. One went trolling in the clouds up in the karst and the second got vertigo on takeoff.

Worked quite a few A-1s as a FAC. Lots of bombs and lots of play time. Great machine that was created on a napkin over a weekend.

UAL T38 Phlyer 05-22-2009 11:33 AM

Ed Heinemann
 
IIICorps:

Ed Heinemann is a hero of mine. He had a hand in some famous airplanes: A-20, A-26, the Ted Smith (Rockwell) Aero Commander (which shows a strong A-26 resemblance), the A-1, and of course, the A-4. My favorite quote of his:

"Simplicate and build-in lightness."

Is the airplane in your icon a P-47 with a counter-rotating liquid-cooled engine? (XP-47H)?

OldAg84 05-22-2009 11:40 AM

Martin-Baker MB 5

Martin-Baker MB 5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

III Corps 05-22-2009 12:34 PM


Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer (Post 615483)

Is the airplane in your icon a P-47 with a counter-rotating liquid-cooled engine? (XP-47H)?

No, as noted it is a Martin Baker MB-5. There are, to my knowledge (faulty as it is) only one was built and it no longer exists but a fellow at Reno is building a replica. The MB-5 was a very muscular, big, great looking machine.

http://www.aafo.com/gallery/week/01-08-01.jpg original

http://www.airventure.de/reno2002/reno02_trophymb5.jpg replica (wow. what an effort! The lines are not as flowing and the prop hub looks a bit off)

And this is the -47H

http://www.enginehistory.org/Museums...ler/XP-47H.jpg ... a bit chunkier machine.

UAL T38 Phlyer 05-22-2009 01:48 PM

Nice!!
 
IIICorps:

Very nice! The MB-5 was a new one on me.

III Corps 05-22-2009 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer (Post 615554)
IIICorps:

Very nice! The MB-5 was a new one on me.

Lots of weird stuff was being tried. The trio, the -54, -55 and -56 were pretty radical departures from the regular efforts. And then there was the early TFX of sorts. The P-75 Fisher Eagle which was the "Franken-fighter' built from parts of other fighters.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-1234P-041.jpg

And the better looking but still not-so-great performer, the -75A

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/sha...-1234P-045.jpg

MB went into ejection seats. Fisher went back to car bodies.

UAL T38 Phlyer 05-22-2009 04:33 PM

Yup!
 
I knew about the P-75. Hard to believe that the Generals thought taking various pieces and cobbing them together would somehow work better.

III Corps 05-22-2009 06:13 PM

But think about it. Most aviators that know a bit of history know the P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-51 and then it gets fuzzy. P-60 but it really was a night fighter. P-82 known because it was sort of a twin Mustang but between the first mentioned and the last, there was a P-something that has basically disappeared into the pages of history, not to mention the various models (A, B, C, etc). Lots of weird stuff around the world.

A while back I met a guy who flew in WWII and trained first on Stearmans. He left the USAF after flying F-106s. 100kts to Mach 2+. And then did the airline thing retiring off the -1011. The span of history is incredible.

UAL T38 Phlyer 05-22-2009 07:02 PM

Lost to Oblivion
 

Originally Posted by III Corps (Post 615702)
But think about it. Most aviators that know a bit of history know the P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-51 and then it gets fuzzy. P-60 but it really was a night fighter. P-82 known because it was sort of a twin Mustang but between the first mentioned and the last, there was a P-something that has basically disappeared into the pages of history, not to mention the various models (A, B, C, etc). Lots of weird stuff around the world.

A while back I met a guy who flew in WWII and trained first on Stearmans. He left the USAF after flying F-106s. 100kts to Mach 2+. And then did the airline thing retiring off the -1011. The span of history is incredible.

There was a book I used to check out at my local library when I was in high school that showed every bomber ever proposed. I think it went from B-1 (of 1920-era) to XB-70. Every proposal (fighter, bomber, transport) gets a number assigned. Of course, most of us only know the ones that at least made it to mock-up stage, or further.

The authors had models of the airplanes that weren't built, and took photos of them. It really helped you visualize what they would have looked like. The facing page had a write-up on estimated performance, strengths, weaknesses, and why it wasn't built (or built, in the case of the ones that were).

I always wanted to see a similar book for fighters, but never did.

III Corps 05-23-2009 04:58 AM


Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer (Post 615719)
There was a book I used to check out at my local library when I was in high school that showed every bomber ever proposed. I think it went from B-1 (of 1920-era) to XB-70. Every proposal (fighter, bomber, transport) gets a number assigned. Of course, most of us only know the ones that at least made it to mock-up stage, or further.

IF you are prone to such, before you are in Washington the next time, call over to the Smithsonian and find out what is necessary to get a 'research card'. It used to be that you could just go there and call upstairs and they would let you come up. Many, if not most, are not aware upstairs is a great research library and along the hall going to that area is a glassed-in shelving where there are hundreds of wind-tunnel models. amazing stuff.

Not sure but I think when the MB.5 lost out, the counter-rotating prop on the Griffon did show up on the Spitfire XIV. The first solution was a five blade prop which was insufficient but beautiful. Note too the clipped wings.

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircra...ing9oClock.jpg

They then went to the counter-rotating prop.

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircra...atingProps.jpg

And then later comes the Westland Wyvern.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/ai...yvernlarge.jpg

Even with the counter-rotating props, check out the size of the vertical fin, the rudder and the treatment on the horizontals.


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