Competitive Minimums for Air Force Slot
 

I've been doing a lot of reading lately and I wanted to get a few more opinions on what you think or have heard the competitive minimums for a slot in the Air Force are.

I am running close to the end of the age clock and have just begun actively pursuing this dream (I know I should have started earlier).

I have a 4 year degree in aviation 3.93 GPA. I also have a master's degree in aviation 4.00 GPA.

I am currently working as a check instructor at a 141 flight school. I have just a little over 1,500 hours total time and 300 ME.

I have not yet taken the AFOQT.

I just found the web site hamletthouse.com and just reading about training I am even more determined to to realize my dream.

I would appreciate any insight on this matter. My real fear is that with the amount of pilots looking for a job that the minimums to get a slot are much higher than what I have.

Thanks and Happy Memorial Day.

Options
 

Your only options are Officer training School (OTS), or the Air Guard or Air Force Reserve.

Most important thing: Get the AFOQT done pronto! Worry about who is going to hire you second.

OTS has limited pilot slots right now.

It is difficult to get hired "off the street" into the Guard or Reserves.

BUT: none of the three are impossible.

Your prior flying may not help with an OTS slot.

It might help if you can find a Guard/Reserve unit that is direct-hiring.

Go to baseops.net...lots of great info there.

Try do well on the AFOQT and the TBAS, you will put a max of 201hrs towards your PCSM score (after that the hours/ratings/licenses don't really matter all that much). I don't think that GPA is a factor with OTS slots anymore (very recently) other than over the minimums. The AFOQT is not a hard test but certainly worth getting the study guides for. The TBAS is a different animal... some say play video games/flight sims... personally I don't play much of those and I didn't do so hot on that test. The first parts were easy, the last parts were very hard - either way you don't get a score from the TBAS specifically. That test is kinda hush-hush, but read what you can about it.... and when you get in there... read the directions very, very carefully - soak them in deeply.
My AFOQT pilot was 96, with max flight hours and the TBAS it dropped my PCSM to 95 - not the best, but oh well.

Good luck!

Avatar
 

Ryan:

Is your avatar an L-39?

No sir, I wish it was though. It is a Chinese built CJ-6 - Quite a low performer, but a fun plane to fly - the metric instruments take a little getting used to - especially the "upside down" attitude indicator. Any chance to get in an aircraft with a stick and radial engine (or any engine) is a good time. Will you be UPT instructing in 1 to 1.5 years from now?

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/e...4/ryan4018.jpg

Barely...but maybe...
 

Ryan:

One year, barely: the Reserves are going to make me retire in July 2010.

BUT: I am considering the "come out of retirement; go back to active-duty" program. It's a voluntary program, and the Air Force tells you what job they will give you, if you come back. Two years minimum; four years max.

If they let me stay at CBM in the T-38, I'm probably going to take it.

You going to be a student in 1 to 1.5 years?

From your post you are motivated and need to be. Get all of your ducks in a row. I would start thinking about a guard or reserve job unless you want to fly a heavy/ tanker or airlift.

The USAF is giving out UAV's now in pilot training. At the drop last Friday in Del Rio, TX, there was 1 fighter aircraft, ,the rest were FAIP,s UAV, RC-12, KC-135 (yes out of the fighter/bomber track). If you want to fly AMC, you shouldn't have any probs for now. Get the ball rolling ASAP for it does take awhile. Hours means nothing and there is and going to be even more so a huge pilot shortage.

...PM sent...

Thanks for the responses so far. My plan all along has been OTS. Guard or reserve is not what I am looking for at this time. I am looking for a full time job and career to go with it. I know that OTS is very limited with somewhere close to or a little over 100 slots offered each year.

I may be on the odd side here but the fighter is not what I am interested in. I would love to be part of the AMC. Heavy is what I am looking for (airplanes that is, not woman)!

Bearcat, from your post it sounds as though this track may have a few more openings than the other tracks (I know that the fighter track is extremely competitive and the amount of slots available for a fighter is very limited). I was a little confused by your last sentence, however, "Hours means nothing and there is and going to be even more so a huge pilot shortage." I know that the amount of hours maxes out at 200ish for credit toward the PCSM score but what do you mean about the shortage? Is this a shortage of pilots to fill aircraft or a shortage of pilot slots available?

Again, thanks for the information thus far. I'll keep everyone up to date and I am sure to have more questions as I continue through the process.

New question. After doing some reading I think I have a good idea of the answer to this one but I thought I would get some more feed back.

While filling out the OTS Applicant Information Form I got to the use of illegal drugs and got to thinking...Does this DQ one from OTS/UPT. More specifically marijuana used 3 times 5 years ago. I answered truthfuly. Integrity to me is something I have become to pride myself in.

What I have read is that the USAF has a zero tolerance drug use policy with regards to Officers.

I am not proud of the decisions I made but I have learned a great deal from them. I know, I know...I should have just said NO!

Thanks.

You should be fine. My two buds from a previous squadron met at the "I smoked pot line" at the zoo. :D The zero tolerance is after you are in and get caught. Good Luck!

Tiger, I wish you the best, but here is my opinion.

You have a very good start; however, your package is very aviation "heavy". Do you bring anything else to the table?

The USAF isn't looking for "pilots" or set minimum flying times. It is looking for MILITARY OFFICERS. In the USAF, you are an Officer first, pilot second. At the beginning of your career, you get a lot face time with the shiny new jet -- but that love affair quickly ends. This may or may not be obvious to you.

The board will be looking at the "total person concept". That includes, but not limited too, type of degree, GPA, volunteerism, military legacy, fitness scores, AFOQT scores, leadership abilities or positions held. They will ask the question, does this person have the leadership abilities to be a military officer? And if that answer is yes, then the second question will be "what career field do we put this person in?" Although it might seem obvious to you that you would fit the pilot field best, you may end up getting a non-rated (non-flying) AFSC.

I personally don't think having flying time is going to be a pro or con. I knew people who had lots of flying time and never got a slot. And then I knew CFIIs who failed out of UPT. I'm sure the scoring system will favoribly view your flying time, but don't expect it to put you over the top. (reference the previous two paragraphs)

Lastly, if this is your life long dream, GET STARTED ON THE AFOQT NOW!!! The clock is ticking and you're running out of time. Make sure your package includes your leadership abilities / jobs ... etc.

Good luck!

Ugh! Well, this isn't going to help you, that's for sure. No, it won't necessarily keep you from getting in. But it could be the thing that keeps you from beling selected over another.

Thanks for the replies. I know that the officer is first and the pilot is second in the equation. Leadership has been something that I have tried to keep in my life. In high school I was involved in a lot of leadership activities and that continued into college. In college I was in several leadership positions in my fraternity, I was a resident adviser for 4 years, and I have been a check instructor/supervisor for a year and half. As a check instructor/supervisor I am responsible for 20+ flight instructors and 160+ students. I am also the scheduler for our flight school getting each student a flight slot with an available instructor.

Volunteer work has been predominately through my current job by organizing aviation youth camps for intercity grade schools and supporting the undergraduate chapter of my fraternity as an Alumni Adviser. This probably is not enough volunteer work I know but this is one of the areas of my life I would like to improve by serving my country.

The next Rated Board is not until September I believe. I spoke with the recruiter yesterday and he is currently very busy finishing up the non-rated board applications. He said that June or July is when I will probably take the AFOQT.

Well that is some good news to hear that my poor decisions a few years ago will not DQ me from the process. As a whole person concept I see that this will not look good. However, I am very determined to see this process through. If I do not pass the board that will not be the end for me. Edison failed many times and was not discouraged to try again and I too will try again.

I truly believe that with every negative that life throws my way it is my responsibility to turn it into a positive (to see the light if you will). What I mean is that even though I made a few poor decisions I found something in myself that I did not know I had, Integrity. I realized the mistake I had made. I was angry, disappointed, and ashamed at myself. I asked for forgiveness and was given it along with the gift of Integrity. I truly was blessed through that short chapter of my life and I wear it not as a burden but truly as a blessing. I now fully realize the idea of following the rules and doing what is right all the time even when there is no one there, Integrity.

So, the good news is that I will be able to continue the process. The bad news...none!

Keep it positive!

I think I may be in the same boat as Tiger. I have not taken the AFOQT or TBAS. I currently work as a manager for a failing company (not a regional sorry boys you are the only ones in that boat) and want a challenge. In my short career out of college I have excelled at what I do but I want something more. How often to guard units hire pilots of the street? I know pilot time does not matter over 200 hrs but for what its worth I'm 22, 3 types and 800 turbine. Where do I go from taking the AFOQT and TBAS what is the next step towards the Guard?

UAL T38 Phyler had some very wise advice earlier concerning a forum/website baseops.net

Baseops Forums (Powered by Invision Power Board)

They have every possible topic completely covered several times over.... from what color underwear you should bring to OTS, to getting a Guard slot, to mary jane questions...

Everything you want to know can be found about flying with the AF, AF Reserve, or ANG can be found at that website. When/If you go there, search for your topic and read, read, read, before you post. I've gotten all the info I needed without posting anything.

didnt get a slot.
 

3.245 gpa college grad
94 pcsm
CFII/MEI AGI IGI
tons of a awards what not.
guess it really is competitive

What is your college degree?

94 pilot score is pretty good.

Bachelor of science aviation professional flight.
i was just turned down A week ago.

I really think it is subjective to who exactly is on the board at the time, what their expectations are for applicants, and also the qualifications of the specific group applying at the time which sets the bar.

I know when I was going through the application process, there was a guy with a 99 PCSM that got non-selected. That should tell you something.

Just curious, why didn't you guys do R.O.T.C. ?

I had huge misconceptions and a lack of research into the Air Force pilot slot, just from getting advice from elders.
Its ok to do the "college" thing first then go into the military afterwards.
and actually knowing what i know now about ROTC in my state, im glad i didnt go because they give out about 1 pilot slot a year and all my friends who wanted to be pilots ended up doing different officer jobs. thats the gamble you play i guess.

You have to pretty much suck balls to not get a slot via ROTC these days, medical requirements aside.

The OM pilot cutoff has consistently been in the mid 70s. 3.0+ GPA, 80+ PCSM, 80+ on the PFT, and top half of your CC ranking... you're in the high 70s to low 80s already. Slot acquired.

I had a few misconceptions I guess. The University that I went to did not have Air Force ROTC. So, I assumed (yea I know) that I couldn't be in it if it was not at the University I attended. It wasn't until after I graduated that I learned how wrong I was.

1 for the state??? I really find that hard to believe. Where do you live?

I don't know how many pilots the USAF is producing these days, but, I would think that they're pumping them out as usual. Which means, for R.O.T.C., if you have a good medical and are somewhat competitive, you have a pilot slot.

I had a single digit PCSM score. Go figure.

Are you serious????

True story. In ROTC CC's ranking plays a large part in the selection process. I think I must have bombed the BAT. My GPA was okay (3.25 if I remember correctly) and I had 10 private hours or so (Civil Air Patrol). I've done just fine in the AF, though, thank you very much.

Depends on where you go. The Det at the school I went to didn't seem to get that many pilot slots. A few of my friends are now ABM/Mx because they only got 1 pilot slot for the 6 that were competing. Seemed to be a trend the whole time I was in school. They were all good dudes with high scores/gpa, not sure of the OM (whatever that is). Made me glad I didn't go the ROTC route.

well good news for me is i have an interview with the 114th fighter squadron in FSD. if anyone has some inside info on the gouge or anything please pass it along.

Tiger,

Move to an "underserved" area so you can be a "quota" hire. I have heard this is how they now get minorities without be "biased". Move to, say, Rio Grande Valley in Texas or Compton, CA. Just some area where not many "officer types" would be from.

Can you claim to be Hispanic? Hispanic is not a race - you don't have to have dark skin.

Marsea

Clearly in your youth, the minority child of a military pilot stole your lunch money. Get some therapy.

For the young guys trying to get pilot slots, if you don't try the answer is always no. Go for it, it's awesome and for the vast majority of time you'll never have to work with ********s like this.

Uhhhh? I'm not sure where this came from. I haven't said my race anywhere on this site so I am a little confused as to your post. Also, moving is not an option right now. I have a job and can't just get up and move somewhere else unless I have another job to go to that equals or exceeds what I've got now.

So, really I guess I just don't understand the point of your post.:confused:

Briefly going over your post you seemed concerned about getting into the Military.

I know that a few years back if an area was "underserved" and the candidate was from that area, points were added to the application because the area is, well, underserved.

If I was Harvard Grad..etc, I guess I would not worry. For a US Mil flying slot I would do what I can.

Have you contacted your Congressman? Contact the one the is the least pro-military.

Marsea

Yes, that would make sense.

Your trolling is actually amusing, but do you have to throw this kind of crap in a thread about young guys trying to fly? I thought Skyhigh was the designating parade pee'er?

Tiger--
On behalf of military officers everywhere, I'll point out that most of what you've heard here is positive, and the only clown on the forum is a guy whose alleged service is far in the past.

SN:>>young guys trying to fly<<

What does age of the opinion receiver have to do with what my opinion is? Why sugarcoat it. I am only one person...show no concern.

marsea

Well just thought I would let everyone that helped me out here know that I received a call today from my recruiter and I have been selected for a pilot slot in the Air Force.

This is the greatest honor of my life and I am ready to get started. This was the longest process I have gone through but is was worth the effort. I've got the flight physical left and then just waiting for a BOT date.

Again, thanks for all your input and support.

Tiger

What you just went through is not the longest part unfortunately. I got accepted for a slot well over a year ago and I am still waiting on my medical. I just got a call from my recruiter saying the medical department now wants a CT scan because of a baseball that hit me in the nose when I was 8 even though I told them about it 1 and ½ years ago and they said don’t worry about it then. I was hoping to make the January OTS class but now I will miss it. My recruiter also told me that they accepted too many people this year and they will have to hold them all for one year before they can get an OTS class date. I hope that is not true for you, but unfortunately you can’t relax just yet. You are at the end of the beginning and there are many more hoops to jump through.

Tiger,

Congratulations! Now the "fun" will begin. Work hard, play hard, and be a good guy. It will be the best year of your life. Bar none.

JJ
Class 74-04 Willie, Tipper/Raindance

Do a search about the initial AF Flying Physical. There are lots of opinions on this. All I will say is don't admit to anything, make them find it. I'm not advocating lying (an officer would never do that), just be very careful what you say.