MCFlyer

I'm in the same boat as many of the posters.... Looking at getting out or staying in after 11 years of active service. Decision time is March 2013 so I've got some time.

My question is.. If you get out of active service and get picked up by a reserve or guard unit AND you land an airline gig, can you go on mil leave and go full time with the reserve/guard unit...assuming your unit can employ you full time? I'm pretty sure the obvious answer is yes, but how long can you be on mil leave while gaining seniority at the airline job?

A perfect scenario would be this.

1. Get hired by airline of choice...
2. Get out of active service and go full time reserve or AGR.
3. Go on Mil leave and work full time reserve or AGR until 20 yrs and start getting retirement pay.
4. Go back to the airline gig with 9-10 years of seniority and have that advantage for domicile/QOL factors.

Realistic or not?

ronnie75

Most full time jobs in the Guard/Reserve are ART (civilian during week) positions. You can't mil leave for those. Getting 10 years or so of straight military orders could be tough. I'm sure some have done it.

Hungarian

McFlyer, realistic yes, but challenging. The earlier you can get a line number at a major airline the better. My advice to you would be to interview with potential ANG Guard units and secure traditional/part time employment first. This is your security that will serve you well in many different scenarios down the road. In the interview be upfront and tell them you are looking for an airline job. Realize if you are transitioning to a different fighter or heavy airframe there will be some TX courses, as well as some seasoning days, usually a year. Once you are checked out in the unit look to get an interview with a major, everyone realizes you will be on probation (about a year) with an airline. Once that is complete the game is on to find full time orders. If you spend anytime at all making the rounds to interview at Guard units, spend your energy on fighter units that sit alert (F-16's/F-15's). It is the best kept secret in the Guard. Flying for the airlines and being a part timer with the ability to sit alert is absolutely priceless, many options and many different ways to get paid and work towards a full time retirement. If you do attain full time AGR orders, generally you have five years to be on mil leave from the airlines. best of luck.

Clear Right

This is not a realistic goal and should not be part of your decision matrix. Several reasons: You are only protected for 5 Years of Military Leave. I don't have time to explain all of the protections afforded under USERRA, but certain status is not counted against the USERRA 5 year protection. Ex: you support OEF or OIF, not counted against 5 years.

All of that being said there have been quite a few folks that have gone back to full-time status and gotten an Active Duty retirement, but this is unique to the timing of the industry, and most likely will not occur again. Most of these cases are Furloughed folks where their particular company has not started their USERRA clock. Example: American or United Guy furloughed after 9/11, goes back to Active Duty or AGR post 9/11, has 8-9 years of Active Duty time that has not counted towards USERRA clock, now gets recalled, he can start his USERRA protection and get all the way to 20 years.

Use your Military Leave and USERRA protection for what it was intended for and that is to serve the Nation without retribution from an employer. Don't plan on using it for your own agenda, i.e. retirement points or avoiding low pay years, or airline reserve duty (depending on the scenario could be seen as abuse of the system). What you will find over your long term career is, that if you truly balance your reserve or guard duty with your Airline career and use your Mil Leave only when you need it for a contingency, or truly to balance the advance of your military career, you will get plenty of points towards a full retirement. You may not get an Active Duty retirement but you will get close.

Bottom line is don't make a decision based on getting a Seniority number and going back to Active Duty to further a personal agenda. This looks bad and gives Military guys a bad reputation. Go to the Airlines because you want to, get a Reserve or Guard job to continue to serve the nation, if you are put on Military duty that requires Mil Leave use it for what it was intended.

Good Luck

chuck416

..........

rickair7777

I Agree, but with GWOT in full swing a lot of active duty jobs are exempt from the 5 year limit...more so than in normal times.

But it would still be difficult and awkward to transition directly from AD to full time guard/reserve and grab a major airline job in the process. I would suggest staying on AD (regular or guard), get the 20, then worry about airlines. There might actually be a pilot shortage by then.

Lancer

Use Caution brother. This is very unpopular.

nwaf16dude

I think the well is running dry for that kind of deal. I know guys that have done it, and I actually did it after my furlough. I was very lucky with timing. I got furloughed at a time when man-day money was nearly unlimited and the reserve was just starting to build up a big AGR force for the war. The pendulum is swinging back toward ART positions in a big way. If you do it, I would recommend that you at least complete probation at your airline before you try to go out on long term mil.

Grumble

What are you referring to?

pony172

1. Get hired by airline of choice...
2. Get out of active service and go full time reserve or AGR.
3. Go on Mil leave and work full time reserve or AGR until 20 yrs and start getting retirement pay.
4. Go back to the airline gig with 9-10 years of seniority and have that advantage for domicile/QOL factors.

Realistic or not? [/QUOTE]

Not very realistic right now.

1. Get hired by airline of choice...That is a pretty small group right now and a roll of the dice. You might not get hired.

2. Get out of active service and go full time reserve or AGR.
Get in line. Everyone else wants this as well. Are you going to do this after you have been hired in the Civ world and trained.

3. Go on Mil leave and work full time reserve or AGR until 20 yrs and start getting retirement pay. -Great if you are involved in the GWOT. Not all positions are labeled as such. You may not get to fly either. Can you stand being in a desk job or the same job until you retire. Be careful what you ask for. Many of the Guard/Res jobs deploy as much as AD.

4. Go back to the airline gig with 9-10 years of seniority and have that advantage for domicile/QOL factors. -If you can beat the five year max with GWOT, go for it. You can not do this as a technician, only as an AGR. Once again, these jobs are few and far between. The guys who are doing this have been hired for a while. I don't know of any of our new guys doing this.

The big unknown is whether you will be hired into a Res/Guard unit. The Guard has been cut considerably in the last few years and we are not done with all of the cuts. If you stay in the USMC you will probably do better. You are just an outsider and will have to prove yourself if you go Guard/Res. I've done the interservice x-fer and I'll tell you straight up this is not the same Guard I came into 7 years ago where I could trough. I'm not saying this is impossible, but with the cut in MPA days this month times are a changin. If you are single this plan may work. Putting your family through all of this uncertainty might be a bit much. Best of luck.