Greetings. I am a Navy H-60F/H pilot with 1600+ hours who just separated from the Navy in December. After a few months of job (and soul) searching, I’m coming to the realization that I’m just not going to be happy being earth-bound. I’m seriously considering making a huge commitment to getting into the airline industry. I’m considering something of a two pronged plan to make this happen.

1. Use my GI bill to go back to school and get my masters. Embry Riddle has an online program for a masters in aeronautical science. The program offers a sub-specialty in aviation safety which is right in my wheel house having been to the Navy’s school of aviation safety and having served as an aviation safety O both in a fleet squadron and at a major NAS.

2. Go back into the Navy reserve and try to scratch and claw my way into a VR (logistics) squadron to build multi-engine fixed wing time. I’ve been in contact with several of these squadrons, and it seems the major hurdles will be that I have a rotary wing background and my proximity to where these squadrons are. I live about an hour away from Pensacola in Alabama, so I’m about two hours away from NAS New Orleans where there is a C-130 squadron. I’m about 5 hours away from NAS Jax where there are two other VR squadrons.

My questions are this:
1. Is it worth it to get the masters? How much more attractive would this make me in the industry?
2. What are my chances of getting on with one of the VR squadrons? I guess it would make more sense given my location to go to one of the training squadrons in Pensacola, but I just don’t think single engine T-6/T-34 are going to do me any good toward my goal. My fear is I won’t get picked up for a VR squadron and I’ll find myself boots on the ground in Kandahar in a couple of years.

Sorry for the long first post, any feedback or advice is greatly appreciated.

 

IMO, Masters won't matter much for getting an airline job. If you want to move into management at an airline down the road, then it would matter -- you could get the airline job, then get the Masters.

Can't speak to the VR squadron option.

If you don't get into the VR squadron and try to build your fixed wing hours elsewhere, it will be a long road. Certainly do-able, but you will need to either (1) not have a spouse and family, or (2) have a very supportive spouse who is willing to accept the pay cut for quite a while. It is a tough industry, and luck plays a large part in how well you will do. You get hired and then you hope your airline hangs in there long enough for you to build your hours.

It sounds like you are dedicated to the profession, and that is the ONLY way I would advise continuing on the path. You really have to love it so much that you can stick with it even when it breaks your heart.

Best of luck in whatever you decide, and thanks for your service!

 

jrow78 -

With your background, have you considered the CBP?
There is a long and informative thread in the militry section of APC.
Just do a search and it should pop up.

USMCFLYR

 

CBP would be an option if and when they start hiring. Seeing as there is a hiring freeze in effect across the board it may be awhile.

Flight Time is flight time whether it be SEL or MEL. VR would be fun, however VT works as well. I know a bunch of Helo Guys that went VT and got picked up for airlines, same can be said for VR. So I am not sure there is much of a difference. I would save your money though and forgo the Masters, not much to be gained by getting that if you want to be at an airline.

VT's have another board in May/June if you are interested. Did you keep your Commission in the IRR? If not might start looking at how to go about getting it back.

Rule #1 in the reserves, stay as close to home as possible, it gets old quick having to commute.

 

There was another thread on APC recently talking about whether single-engine turboprop time would count the same as how single engine fighter time would count (this thread was Fedex specific), and all of that T-34C or T-6 time would not help with the meeting the required mins for FedEx.

I think jrow's problem is going to be two fold with regards to most of airlines. TOTAL fixed wing time (though the VTs would quickly fix this problem) and the much harder to get - multi-turbine fixed wing (total and PIC) time.

As far as your chances of getting on with the VRs - I have no idea either and no experience. I do know a few guys in the NAS Jacksonville C-40 squadron. I could ask them if they have any helo-only background guys in the squadron or try to get a feeling for the future hiring if you wanted me too.

I knew that some sections of the gov't were on a hiring freeze, I wasn't sure about the CBP but it makes sense

USMCFLYR

 

Generally, in the airline biz...

Civilian single-engine TPIC will not cut it (Caravan, Pilatus, etc).

Military single-engine TPIC has always been accepted because F-16's, AV-8B's, A-4's, F-35's etc are all SE. This was always extended to T-34 or whatever for IP's, and there are plenty of guys who got their times up for the airlines doing IP tours, including helo drivers.

Odd to hear that FDX is discounting IP time, but tey have always been very fighter-centric. But IP time should work just fine with the rest of the industry.

I would focus my energy on:

- Get an IP tour.
- Get a flying job in the guard/reserve (FW if you can)
- Get civilian CFI ratings (and actually learn how to use them).
- Save the master's for last, don't waste time and money on that until your FW time problem is solved.

Be prepared to do a little regional time if needed to boost your total and turbine time. The good news is that while you may have to claw your way to 1000+ TPIC like any other civilian, once you get there you are still a winged military aviator and will enjoy the usual hiring preferences that entails.

 

I knew guys from the VT's when I was there that PRIOR to 9/11 were helo guys who built up 1000+ hours of T-34 time who got legacy airline jobs like Delta, American, etc. AFTER 9/11 with the hiring tightened those same guys were shifting down when furloughed to the regionals. New helo guys that had since come in to the squadron after 9/11 built up 1000+ hours of T-34 time--still went to the regionals at that point. It is possible though to get right to say Delta. I wouldn't say there hiring requirements have ever changed just there ability to pick and choose. This is not however any reference to FEDEX hiring mins which at least in my experience and research you WILL NOT meet unless you get 1000+ hours multi-engine turbine PIC or PIC in a high performance tactical jet as but one of the hours requirements.

From the Delta hiring website:

Flight Time Requirements
Minimum of 1,200 hours of total documented flight time
Minimum of 1,000 hours of fixed wing turboprop or turbofan time
When evaluating the flight time of applicants meeting the basic qualifications, consideration will be given to, among other things, quality, quantity, recency, and verifiability of training; complexity of aircraft flown; types of flight operations; and hours flown as PIC in turbine powered aircraft. Applicants invited to interview must provide appropriate documentation of all flight hours.

 

I was in your shoes once upon a time. The first time I tried to get out of the Navy, I had 1200 hours in H-46s and 400 in C-12s. When I couldn't even get an interview, I went back, applied for TAR and got into VR that way. Took another tour and a half until I had enough CV-580/C-9 time to get hired. That might be an option.

As others have told you, T-34 time might not get you where you want to go and you certainly could end up as the Harbor Control Officer in Haiti.

Have you considered the regionals? Figure out who has the quickest upgrade, take the short term financial hit, get your time and move on. One of my squadron mates went from helos to a 135 multiengine freight hauler (like Ameriflight) got his multi turboprop hours. He's at AA now.

 

Just curious, what do the initials mentioned on this thread mean?

TAR, VR, and VT?

I know it has something to do with flying for the navy’s fleet logistics support like the C-9, C-40, C-20, and C-130, but what exactly do they stand for?

 

Not sure about TAR, but I can tell you the other two. In the Navy and Marine Corps, the "V" always means fixed wing. All fixed wing squadrons will begin with a V. An "H" denotes a rotary wing (helicopter, hence the H). The second letter denotes the specifics. VR is fixed wing fleet logistics (not sure how they got the R, but I always assumed that it stood for reserve, someone correct me if I'm wrong). VT is fixed wing training squadron. Marine Corps squadrons will also have an "M" immediately after the first letter to denote that it is a Marine squadron. For instance, a Navy F/A-18 squadron would be a VFA (fixed wing fighter/attack), where a Marine F/A-18 squadron would be a VMFA (fixed wing Marine fighter/attack). Same goes for helos. And for bonus knowledge, when you see a carrier's nomenclature as "CV" or "CVN", it stands for "Carrier, fixed wing" for CV or "Carrier, fixed wing, nuclear" for CVN. Hope this helps.