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-   -   Instructor time? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/military/58153-instructor-time.html)

USMCFLYR 03-26-2011 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by Stoner97 (Post 971061)
All good stuff, thanks. I'm currently teaching at an FRS and did a tour 12+ years ago as well. My plan, conservative, is to count IP time as: 1) Student pilot in my front seat 2) Student pilot on my wing. Not planning on counting any of the fleet tactical upgrade flights, NVG quals, etc. Too hard to reconstruct.

I agree - that is why I went the route I did.
Good luck.
Which FRS btw?

USMCFLYR

Chinabug 03-26-2011 04:01 PM


Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 971067)
I agree - that is why I went the route I did.
Good luck.
Which FRS btw?

USMCFLYR

Currently a guest IP at VFA-106. IP at FAT-101 a while back...

Silver2Gold 03-29-2011 11:08 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 970992)
Any military time is good, including IP. But they want a breakdown and they may give preference to someone who has more stick time.

They are hiring you to fly, not instruct.

This is exactly 180 degrees out from everything I've ever been told about airline hiring, to include my own interview with Delta, and just doesn't really pass any sort of reason check. By this reasoning, they would deduct 50% of PIC time in a multi-crew airplane since it is presumed that the other pilot is "at the stick" every other leg. But, they do not. It's decision making that they are looking for in PIC time - and instrctor time is all about making decisions. Instructor time, being PIC by default, is the gold standard of flight time. It's more than just being the Captain. It's being a Capt, who also has to overcome the additional distractions of teaching, anticipating and managing errors, and not allowing them to cross a safe threshold.

Showcase your mil instructor time - the hiring dudes love it. In fact, if your a mil guy with 8+ years and no, or little, instructor time it will raise eyebrows. Why wasn't this guy ever allowed to instruct?

I'll give Rick the benefit of the doubt that he is confusing Instructor time in the sim building of an airline training center with instructor time we log in the military, which is in the jet and in command of the aircraft. But, if he is referring to IP time logged in the jet - he's simply wrong.

Sputnik 03-29-2011 02:34 PM

I'm a military guy who knows nothing, but every piece of advice I've ever been given matches what S2G said above. Anyone else have experience that matches Rick's advice? Obviously isn't going to change anything, I'm just curious.

Chinabug 03-29-2011 05:27 PM

My guess, if you're a mil bubba that did a tour as an IP (tracom, FRS, RTU, etc), the guys interviewing you will realize you taught student pilots and flew a ton!

Bottom line: Definition of IP time is clearly not well defined since none of us really know golden rule. I'm sure this can be easily explained in any interview...assuming you get one. Good luck to all.

HuggyU2 03-29-2011 07:12 PM

Agree completely with S2G. My brief airline experience validated that they valued IP time.

asupilot 03-29-2011 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by Silver2Gold (Post 972376)
Showcase your mil instructor time - the hiring dudes love it. In fact, if your a mil guy with 8+ years and no, or little, instructor time it will raise eyebrows. Why wasn't this guy ever allowed to instruct?

While that may be true in terms of conventional wisdom, pilots of this generation have had to endure constant change...at least in ACC. TAMI 21, regular ALPHA tours, short-notice MC-12 gigs...it just ain't like it used to be where a guy could "grow" up in an MWS and reach EP in his first assignment or so. White jets, for AD bubbas, aren't dropping nearly in the quantities they once were. Maybe things are different in AMC, but in ACC it's difficult to stay flying in your MWS. Hell, sometimes it just difficult to stay flying, period. Ask just about any bro at Creech or Cannon. I flew the B-1, was an ALO for three years, did the MC-12 gig, and am now flying the RC-135. I have yet to reach IP in anything. I know bros in my situation are hoping the airlines will see value in the diversity of aircraft and missions. I'll be an IP for the first time in my last year (2013)...I think I'll be able to explain why during my DAL interview. If not, at least my frau makes good money.

USMCFLYR 03-30-2011 05:29 AM


Originally Posted by asupilot (Post 972661)
While that may be true in terms of conventional wisdom, pilots of this generation have had to endure constant change...at least in ACC. TAMI 21, regular ALPHA tours, short-notice MC-12 gigs...it just ain't like it used to be where a guy could "grow" up in an MWS and reach EP in his first assignment or so. White jets, for AD bubbas, aren't dropping nearly in the quantities they once were. Maybe things are different in AMC, but in ACC it's difficult to stay flying in your MWS. Hell, sometimes it just difficult to stay flying, period. Ask just about any bro at Creech or Cannon. I flew the B-1, was an ALO for three years, did the MC-12 gig, and am now flying the RC-135. I have yet to reach IP in anything. I know bros in my situation are hoping the airlines will see value in the diversity of aircraft and missions. I'll be an IP for the first time in my last year (2013)...I think I'll be able to explain why during my DAL interview. If not, at least my frau makes good money.

No one was saying that you HAD to have military instructor time, just responding to a post that said the airlines didn't care for instructor time or would give more credit to other times.
Your background is everything that is required to go on to the P121 world. I wouldn't worry about having to explain anything.

USMCFLYR

Silver2Gold 03-30-2011 08:41 PM


Originally Posted by asupilot (Post 972661)
pilots of this generation have had to endure constant change...

Hey, what's all this generation talk !??.............. I'm not that old, am I?

Thanks for pointing out my over-simplification of those without IP time. I forgot how much the AF changed over the last 5 years, and yes, the MC-12 thing came about after I left the big Blue. So, maybe I am old.

Sounds like you have some solid experience that will make you more than qualified to drive a Delta jet. Good luck with the job hunt.

Pakagecheck 03-31-2011 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 970901)
For FAA purposes I don't think there is a provision for logging instructor time if the student was in another aircraft. If you ever need to use your IP time to meet FAA instructor requirements (such as 141 leadership positions) that time would be invalid.

Many airlines actually consider instructor time as second-rate time compared to actual pilot time...for that reason alone I would probably log section-lead instructor time as just flight time. If you were on the stick, take credit for it. Maybe keep a separate column for that sort of IP time.

Rick,
Do you have a reference for the first paragraph? I don't know of any restriction stating it must be in the same a/c. Not many scenarios that would need multiple aircraft working together civilian. However, there are a multitude in the military. IMHO, If an instructor is instructing(teaching a student) skills related to his flying mission or aviation in general, then log IP time.

Not sure where the second statement came from either. Is this referencing instructing in a 152 vs flying sched ops? Everything I have heard is to the contrary.
PC


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