Should I Get Out at 13 Years?
09-04-2012, 09:11 PM
#62
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: CL-65 CA
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by milflyr
I'm a 12 year Air Force guy with about 2700 hrs, some in heavies and some single seat, and my commitment should be up in a year or so. I'm contemplating leaving active duty. The politics, office duties, and general b.s. is hard to put up with. (I've come to this conclusion several times in the past, but have decided to stay because of civilian job market.) I really have no interest in flying U.S. carriers, because of the instability of the job market. Would it be possible for me to get a contract job in Asia or Europe without time in type (an airline contract, not a military type company)? Or, should I just suck it up and tough out the next 8 years? Thought I'd try this thread before I post in the foreign one. Thanks.
You should do those of us a favor as well, who never got the chance to make it a career and stick it out. You won't regret it. Flying in the AF for that long doesn't compare to the even 10 years people experience in the infantry. You're fortunate to be flying in the best air force in the world and those of us who have served on the ground appreciate it.
09-05-2012, 03:22 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Strykerinf
8 more years in is worth the 30 years of retirement you'll get by staying in. I have a degree in history, applied to the AF, Navy, and Marines to fly (had all my ratings and high scores) but was not selected due to my non-technical degree. The Army wouldn't take me because I was overqualified.. yes, that's what the board even told me.
You should do those of us a favor as well, who never got the chance to make it a career and stick it out. You won't regret it. Flying in the AF for that long doesn't compare to the even 10 years people experience in the infantry. You're fortunate to be flying in the best air force in the world and those of us who have served on the ground appreciate it.
You should do those of us a favor as well, who never got the chance to make it a career and stick it out. You won't regret it. Flying in the AF for that long doesn't compare to the even 10 years people experience in the infantry. You're fortunate to be flying in the best air force in the world and those of us who have served on the ground appreciate it.
The Marines are more concerned about how you score on the PFT than a technical degree
USMCFLYR
09-05-2012, 05:45 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
My story is probably buried here in an old thread, as this comes up from time to time...
Its a huge gut check. I bailed at 14 years. Here were some whys:
1. Flew 14 straight years...staff tour and remote both looming hot...
2. Wife had great career and was happy
3. Kids in school and happy
4. Had very nice house...not "dream house" but waterfront, good neighborhood, good schools, etc etc. Couldn't have afforded to buy another like it as prices shot up 2-3 years after we bought. (2012 that has changed...)
5. Had ANG job lined up
6. Had Airline job lined up (x 2)
7. Most important--ALWAYS dreamed of one day being an airline pilot, not a squadron commander
I'd say point 7 was as important as any. If your goal was to be a WIC IP, Sqdn CC, and maybe an OG the best airline job in the world won't make you happy. Conversely, if your dream is putting down roots, building a dream home somewhere or getting that family farm, no job in the military will take its place. I was on my to my 2000 hour patch in the Eagle, a big goal for me. That--and being an IP/Flt CC were pretty much my targets, and I hit them. I overshot my target O-3 rank by a couple pay grades...the first while active and the second while a Guardsman. In short--I had "checked off" all my mental target boxes. One of the most important steps in making this decision is being extremely honest with yourself about what truly motivates you and makes you tick.
Also--family is huge. If the kids hate your current place, and the wife it itching to move every 3 years...the military is fun. I am grateful I got to see so much of the world for my 14 years. Conversely, if you have a professional spouse who wants her own career too, it gets tougher and tougher to keep moving depending on his/her profession. Some kids--like my youngest--crave new places and would move tomorrow. She wants us to go back to Alaska--next week. Others--like my first two--take great comfort in the stability of being raised in one place and being part of a community.
My story has been storybook. My wife is very happy, and these days I am known around here as "Melissa's husband" as her career has blossomed. Kids are happy and doing well in school, including oldest off in college. I have my farm, my boat(s), my plane...all the stupid man toys that keep my spending too much. But ..this is important...
I got hired at one of the few companies not gutted by post 9/11 contracts.
I did a bunch of work in the ANG...busted my butt the first couple years working a lot of man days which may or may not be available in this environment....
I started a successful business....
I also started a couple unsuccessful businesses but didn't let them eat us up....
I had a spouse who LIKED working and also provided extra income and although never required could have provided health insurance and other benefits.
So--take an inventory of your life. What do you WANT? Do you have a plan B, C, and D if plan A stalls or spins in? Are you the kind of person who craves opportunity more or security more? There isn't a right answer, but you can be honest and do an assessment of your comfort level.
If you do bail, I have a few recommendations.
1. Stay in the Guard/Reserves. Its a great insurance policy, a back-door back to active duty if you need it, and a great place to stay connected to who you are NOW as you gradually adjust to becoming a civilian.
2. Put your spouse to work or at least educate them so they can work if required.
3. Don't move for a while. Lots of new stuff going on...hard to adjust to new job(s) and lifestyle if you are also changing schools, churches, and trying to move into new circles of friends. If possible, sit still 12-24 months, figure out how the new job(s) are going to work, and then make an assessment if moving is smart. Lots of pilots rush to buy in a new domicile only to discover they could have commuted happily OR they end up getting displaced. Nothing wrong with moving to be close to work--just make sure you understand the new job and stuff before disrupting the family.
4. Be ready to work hard. A lot of the success we have is because my wife and I were working our own business, our day jobs, and the ANG for a while. It wasn't easy, but it was satisfying because it was our choice. If you are looking to sit back and be taken care of, this lifestyle isn't for you. If you are willing to roll from a drill weekend into a 4 day trip, then do a little freelance research work for that DOD firm while on your layover--you are probably doing the right thing. When I worked harder in the military--I just go more work assigned to me! When I work harder now, I get paid more. Its a different game. Only you can decide if its for you.
By my math, I gave up about 17 years or so of military retirement (43-60) to get my airline career started, get a business rolling, and plant some roots. Provided the "contracts" hold...my airline retirement, guard retirement, social security, etc I will have come out way ahead this way. But even if any or all of those "guaranteed" benefits fail, I've had a heck of a good time the last 11 years doing what I love and getting to mix in some airline, military, business and family adventures. I don't regret it, and it worked for me.
Best of luck whatever you decide....
Its a huge gut check. I bailed at 14 years. Here were some whys:
1. Flew 14 straight years...staff tour and remote both looming hot...
2. Wife had great career and was happy
3. Kids in school and happy
4. Had very nice house...not "dream house" but waterfront, good neighborhood, good schools, etc etc. Couldn't have afforded to buy another like it as prices shot up 2-3 years after we bought. (2012 that has changed...)
5. Had ANG job lined up
6. Had Airline job lined up (x 2)
7. Most important--ALWAYS dreamed of one day being an airline pilot, not a squadron commander
I'd say point 7 was as important as any. If your goal was to be a WIC IP, Sqdn CC, and maybe an OG the best airline job in the world won't make you happy. Conversely, if your dream is putting down roots, building a dream home somewhere or getting that family farm, no job in the military will take its place. I was on my to my 2000 hour patch in the Eagle, a big goal for me. That--and being an IP/Flt CC were pretty much my targets, and I hit them. I overshot my target O-3 rank by a couple pay grades...the first while active and the second while a Guardsman. In short--I had "checked off" all my mental target boxes. One of the most important steps in making this decision is being extremely honest with yourself about what truly motivates you and makes you tick.
Also--family is huge. If the kids hate your current place, and the wife it itching to move every 3 years...the military is fun. I am grateful I got to see so much of the world for my 14 years. Conversely, if you have a professional spouse who wants her own career too, it gets tougher and tougher to keep moving depending on his/her profession. Some kids--like my youngest--crave new places and would move tomorrow. She wants us to go back to Alaska--next week. Others--like my first two--take great comfort in the stability of being raised in one place and being part of a community.
My story has been storybook. My wife is very happy, and these days I am known around here as "Melissa's husband" as her career has blossomed. Kids are happy and doing well in school, including oldest off in college. I have my farm, my boat(s), my plane...all the stupid man toys that keep my spending too much. But ..this is important...
I got hired at one of the few companies not gutted by post 9/11 contracts.
I did a bunch of work in the ANG...busted my butt the first couple years working a lot of man days which may or may not be available in this environment....
I started a successful business....
I also started a couple unsuccessful businesses but didn't let them eat us up....
I had a spouse who LIKED working and also provided extra income and although never required could have provided health insurance and other benefits.
So--take an inventory of your life. What do you WANT? Do you have a plan B, C, and D if plan A stalls or spins in? Are you the kind of person who craves opportunity more or security more? There isn't a right answer, but you can be honest and do an assessment of your comfort level.
If you do bail, I have a few recommendations.
1. Stay in the Guard/Reserves. Its a great insurance policy, a back-door back to active duty if you need it, and a great place to stay connected to who you are NOW as you gradually adjust to becoming a civilian.
2. Put your spouse to work or at least educate them so they can work if required.
3. Don't move for a while. Lots of new stuff going on...hard to adjust to new job(s) and lifestyle if you are also changing schools, churches, and trying to move into new circles of friends. If possible, sit still 12-24 months, figure out how the new job(s) are going to work, and then make an assessment if moving is smart. Lots of pilots rush to buy in a new domicile only to discover they could have commuted happily OR they end up getting displaced. Nothing wrong with moving to be close to work--just make sure you understand the new job and stuff before disrupting the family.
4. Be ready to work hard. A lot of the success we have is because my wife and I were working our own business, our day jobs, and the ANG for a while. It wasn't easy, but it was satisfying because it was our choice. If you are looking to sit back and be taken care of, this lifestyle isn't for you. If you are willing to roll from a drill weekend into a 4 day trip, then do a little freelance research work for that DOD firm while on your layover--you are probably doing the right thing. When I worked harder in the military--I just go more work assigned to me! When I work harder now, I get paid more. Its a different game. Only you can decide if its for you.
By my math, I gave up about 17 years or so of military retirement (43-60) to get my airline career started, get a business rolling, and plant some roots. Provided the "contracts" hold...my airline retirement, guard retirement, social security, etc I will have come out way ahead this way. But even if any or all of those "guaranteed" benefits fail, I've had a heck of a good time the last 11 years doing what I love and getting to mix in some airline, military, business and family adventures. I don't regret it, and it worked for me.
Best of luck whatever you decide....
09-05-2012, 08:26 AM
#66
Indian Takeout Driver
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FAR part 347 (91+121+135)
Posts: 1,566
unless they kick you out (as they are with many) take the 20 year retirement!!!! I know so many who are not in full bankruptcy today because they had that to fall back on. Also, huge retirements expected to begin after the next 7 years.... ride it out
09-05-2012, 10:08 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: C130
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by Albief15
My story is probably buried here in an old thread, as this comes up from time to time...
So--take an inventory of your life. What do you WANT? Do you have a plan B, C, and D if plan A stalls or spins in? Are you the kind of person who craves opportunity more or security more? There isn't a right answer, but you can be honest and do an assessment of your comfort level.
By my math, I gave up about 17 years or so of military retirement (43-60) to get my airline career started, get a business rolling, and plant some roots. Provided the "contracts" hold...my airline retirement, guard retirement, social security, etc I will have come out way ahead this way. But even if any or all of those "guaranteed" benefits fail, I've had a heck of a good time the last 11 years doing what I love and getting to mix in some airline, military, business and family adventures. I don't regret it, and it worked for me.
Best of luck whatever you decide....
So--take an inventory of your life. What do you WANT? Do you have a plan B, C, and D if plan A stalls or spins in? Are you the kind of person who craves opportunity more or security more? There isn't a right answer, but you can be honest and do an assessment of your comfort level.
By my math, I gave up about 17 years or so of military retirement (43-60) to get my airline career started, get a business rolling, and plant some roots. Provided the "contracts" hold...my airline retirement, guard retirement, social security, etc I will have come out way ahead this way. But even if any or all of those "guaranteed" benefits fail, I've had a heck of a good time the last 11 years doing what I love and getting to mix in some airline, military, business and family adventures. I don't regret it, and it worked for me.
Best of luck whatever you decide....
I don't think enough people do their own math. If you're happy then your math was better. That itching feeling (not associated with the Romanian TDY) that you're leaving something on the table makes losers in Vegas every single day. Sometimes you gots to hit though!
Good post Albie.
09-05-2012, 12:03 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Pressing On
Posts: 524
If your having fun and still getting promoted, think about staying around until that changes. Simple, but that was the advice i got and followed. When the fun meter unpegged and i realized i was not like the other sneetches and didn't want a star on my belly;gone.
Mil retirement can be a game changer. If you can pull off a mil career and then a second career, you can do very, very well.
Up to you.
Mil retirement can be a game changer. If you can pull off a mil career and then a second career, you can do very, very well.
Up to you.
09-05-2012, 12:13 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by Strykerinf
8 more years in is worth the 30 years of retirement you'll get by staying in. I have a degree in history, applied to the AF, Navy, and Marines to fly (had all my ratings and high scores) but was not selected due to my non-technical degree. The Army wouldn't take me because I was overqualified.. yes, that's what the board even told me.
You should do those of us a favor as well, who never got the chance to make it a career and stick it out. You won't regret it. Flying in the AF for that long doesn't compare to the even 10 years people experience in the infantry. You're fortunate to be flying in the best air force in the world and those of us who have served on the ground appreciate it.
You should do those of us a favor as well, who never got the chance to make it a career and stick it out. You won't regret it. Flying in the AF for that long doesn't compare to the even 10 years people experience in the infantry. You're fortunate to be flying in the best air force in the world and those of us who have served on the ground appreciate it.
BTW, thanks for your service on the ground...nothing but respect for those with boots on the ground in-country.
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