USMCFLYR

What happened to the RTU/FRS/RAG at Eglin AFB?

Marine Corps get first F-35, but with no weapons or the right gear — RT

The Marietta Daily Journal - Marine Corps forms new fighter jet squadron around F 35

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/mi...2667d16e4.html

These two points prove troubling though

Grumble

"The F-35 will bankrupt Naval Aviation."

Heard this more than once from more than a few guys wearing Eagles or Stars.

rickair7777

The only reason I'm not firmly in the "CANX that mother now" camp is that it would leave our allies hanging out to dry and make us look very uncommitted to being a superpower.

UAL T38 Phlyer

I'm afraid it makes us look just the opposite: desperate to uphold a failed program to try and save face and appear to be the superpower of choice for weapons systems (and make money off our allies).

The A-12 was cancelled nearly 20 years ago....

It won't just bankrupt Naval aviation...it will bankrupt Air Force aviation, the DoD, and the country. Well, just add to the bankruptcy there.

tomgoodman

Question: Should the X-32 have been chosen, or is the whole JSF concept flawed to begin with? We've tried the "one airplane can do it all" approach before, without much success.

Boeing X-32 Jet Fighter Plane - YouTube

Grumble

You could modernize the entire Superhornet fleet with EPE motors and conformal tanks (make a real fighter out of it), replace the entire F-15C fleet with new ones, upgrade all the F-16's and A-10's, buy every service all their whirley bird toys and upgrades, replace USMC aviation with brand new F-18 F's, and still come out well below the F-35 programs cost (and ahead of capability).

Tom, it's the idea of trying to be all things for all services. Jack of all trades, master of none. From talking to guys that have actually flown the thing it sounds more and more like a complete dissapointment.

BDGERJMN

Grumble, your points are well taken, but let's look back to the F/A-18 A-D...the original jets were far less capable than the jets flying today are they not? JSF or any weapons system is really no different, in that the original requirements and acquisition is what it is. The jet might not be all that we want it to be right now, but you can best believe it will be far more capable in the future.

The price tag is a separate discussion and unfortunately the JSF program and DoD will get blamed for Lockheed/Boeing/BAE and every other contractor with equity in this jet for the cost overruns and design flaws. You know what is funny about that...congress mandates the process then goes after DoD when the process allows this type of thing to happen over and over again.

In the end I think JSF will do what its designed to do in terms of performing as a 5th Gen fighter...it will also be able to do what all of the jets you spoke of can do today. Guess what, Rhinos will be flying for many years to come and are still being built. Wonder when the Marine Corps will trade some F-35s for F model SuperHornets.


EDIT: I hope the Marine Corps F-35B CONOPS has been modified to include the L/L from Camp Bastion. We might be able to soak up the cost of the cost overruns, but rest assured the services can't re-learn those lessons both in blood and treasure. Remember Wake!

Grumble

All valid points, it's just that the F-35 is leaning so far forward they're desperately trying not to fall on their face. It's almost "half-assed-cutting-edge."

I really hope the end result is as advertised, but like you said I think it may take many more years and dollars to get there. The latter of which is already in short supply.

JamesNoBrakes

True, and that has happened all to often. I wonder how many of the "F-35 is too expensive" crowd are the same that vote for the military-spending/darpa/grants supporting party. Not that it means anything by itself, but the original F22 and F35 orders were enormous, even stuff like the B2s and other aircraft.

It's a catch 22, you get it 2/3rds completed, it already costs 50% more, but if you spend some more money, you get a "finished product", something of value. This has to be far better regulated, we've just started to look into this big-time in the last few years, but it has to continue, and yes it will mean less dollars and jobs for the industry at times, but the past is filled with so much money and so little value...

I don't think we need crazy numbers of these things though, it won't be long before drones "do it all" and can be flown into combat much cheaper. The F35 is really just a stop-gap measure when you think about it. The legacy of the "5th generation aircraft" won't really amount to much for the superpowers IMO.

RCAFJULES

If it makes you feel any better, many of us (allies) are looking at this program very carefully. I would be surprised if Canada sees a F-35 on the ramp in CYOD. Too much $ for too little jet. I would rather see what the Silent Eagle has to offer.