Delta Pilot to UPT
 

Is it worth it to fly for both Delta and a reserve unit?

What's family life like?
What's the commitment?
What should I know that recruiters wouldn't tell me?

Seriously you have a job at Delta and you want to fly for the military?! Usually it's the other way around!

It's not worth it financially. The 401k and profit sharing you'd lose out on while on MIL leave would be worth tons. You can't put a price tag on all the BS you'd have to endure along the way.

Money isn't the deciding factor...and money isn't everything.

Yes, I know it's tabo to be working at Delta then go to UPT

Well one plus is UPT could be a breeze between your current experience and IP's sucking up to you to try and get a job.

I agree with the rest though, financially would be a bad move. True money isn't everything, but you could also view not taking a UPT slot at your stage in the game as leaving one more slot available for a young guy with little experience looking to get started.

If money isn't a factor then QOL would scare the hell out of you. The military isn't what it used to be...as VIPER said....there is so much BS these days....But to each his own!

OP, how old are you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At Delta you are a pilot. That is your job. If you are in the AF, being a pilot is way down the list. There is a long list of things deemed more important than your primary job. SAPR, Fit test, OPRs, shots, more SAPR training, flu shot, safety down day, suicide prevention, another fit test, chicken pox shot (oh, you had chicken pox as a kid? Go get the shot anyways), flying cancelled due to lack of funding, hurry up and order a bunch of useless crap for the office because there's money in that pocket, time to go to PmE, back to the squadron-weather cancel...

I'm curious as well. Isn't starting UPT cut off at 30 years old w/o waiver? Must be quite a young DAL pilot to be considering this.

Age isn't an issue.

just to put it in perspective....most of us leave the military in order to work at delta...

I would talk it over with DAL first.

Guard/Reserve fighter? Hell yes it's worth it! The best flying you'll ever do in your life. I started on the civilian track joined AD and now do both. I love the Airline gig and opportunities it will provide my family, but flying wise and satisfaction in your accomplishments it doesn't even begin to compare. Yeah, it's not gonna be easy, but so what, most great things in life aren't easy.


Active Duty? Not worth it, and I don't think Delta would be required to keep you on since your commitment would far exceed the 5 years protected by USERA.

Read "Fighter Pilot" by Robin Olds. If he sounds like a guy you'd look up to and want to hang around with, sign up. If you find him offensive...well, please stay away. And yes, I realize it's a different AF now, but it still presents a good view of what being a fighter pilot and warrior means.

Edit:

Recruiters will lie to you quite a bit, be careful and do your research. For guard/reserve the real hiring takes place at the unit, not with a recruiter.

Also, if you're thinking heavies, I'd still say hell yes it's worth it, but I haven't flown one for what it's worth.

I say do it. It's not only about money. USERRA protects you beyond the 5 normal years for UPT (excluded from 5). If need more USERRA protection details send PM. You don't need an employers permission. I would not discuss with my CP either.

That's NUTS!

I had great time in Navy Reserves, Korea, Norway, Singapore, RAF Mildenhall and more. I am single though. Gives you a good back up plan also.

Unless something has changed in the last few years, you need to be under 30 the day you start UPT. If you are just asking the question now, then you'll need to factor in the time to find a unit, interview/rush, complete the application process, graduate from a commissioning source, and PCS to your UPT base. That's probably a good 14-18 months best case.

There is such a thing as an age waiver, but in my 3 & 1/2 years teaching in AETC, I never saw a student come through training who had one.

You're sure age isn't an issue?

Troll alert

Maybe, but valid question. I know of an SP going through UPT right now for a guard fighter unit that has a job at a Legacy. Though rare, this will become more common over the next few years and these guys have the potential to have epic careers.

Same at UPS, we have a 25 year old newhire. Not inexperienced. In past they have hired some mid twenties folks. They could have gone legacy I'm sure. Time to make it if pursue and timing works.

Given the timeline you mentioned, yes I am sure - no issue

All depends on what you want to do and what you get your rewards from.

For a lot of airline guys who only think in terms of max $$$ for min time, it doesn't pass the common sense test, and by that logic they're right.

If you're young, single, and just want to have a blast? Especially if you have a chance at an F-22/35/15/16. You'll never get that chance again.

USERRA helps ease the pain and when you've had enough and you're ready to come back, you haven't lost anything.

It's a ton of work if you look at it as work.

I wouldn't commute to a USAFR job. Commute to your airline job, or if you're lucky, find a place where both are co-located.

I enjoyed every minute of being a fighter pilot even though it was 60+ hours of work and a ton of deployments. Right up until around age 35...then it started wearing on me.

All depends on what you want. After flying 10 years on active duty, it literally sucked the life out of me. I loved flying the Hog, but that was only 5% of my job. I tried the Reserves but after an injury and realizing it was just like AD, I quit again. It different for everyone.

Buy an RV-3, move to the beach, and have fun. The Air Force is not the sinking ship I'd want to attach myself to.

Caveat - I may be a little bitter...

Tough, tough call. Depends on your level of desire or military flying, what type airplane, family circumstance, and geography.

If all the stars line up, it might be a good thing. Geography will be important, especially with family.

Don't do it. There are more than a few of us leaving at the 15 year point--the Air Force is a sinking ship. I truly hope it turns around, but that's not going to happen in the next decade and not until the F-35 debacle plays out.

Keep in mind that there's a 10 year commitment associated with AF pilot training, and they're exploring the possibility of bumping that up to 15 years. They wouldn't be considering upping the commitment to 15 years if people were staying of their own volition.

It has been a while but I would do it in a heartbeat for the right Guard unit. Not so sure about a reserve job.

If it's on your bucket list to fly whatever it is in the USAF/ANG you want to fly, then go for it. Just realize that everything has it's positives and negatives. In the military, I think it's fair to say that you'll start with the positives outweighing the negatives, and that balance will change over time. If the negatives take over for you, then it's time to consider jumping ship if they'll let you.

The big plus with going Guard is that you can be part-time as you fulfill your service commitment if you don't enjoy it as much, or go full-time if it is available and increase the live-at-home time while you're on mil leave. It can be a great option and a complement to an airline job.

While on MIL Leave you receive a Profit Sharing Check and monthly Goal checks and, you also receive your estimated 401k payout based on the ALV of the category you left prior to starting the MIL Leave and this amount will be deposited into your 401k approx 1 month after your return from MIL leave.

Caveat: USERRA protects pension compensation. Not pay. Have no clue how Delta Profit Sharing is treated or the monthly Goal Checks, but recommend any MIL confirm with their ALPA experts at ALPA.
In many cases, the standard for MIL is how are other non active employees covered when on a leave-personal, medical, etc (USERRA calls a leave a 'furlough'). Pay treatment is usually contract. Pension is USERRA. If current MIL is being paid the Profit and Goal dollars other inactive employees get, super cool.
As an aside, one can argue for Pension based on seat one could have held except on Military. Example: FO on Mil for 2 years. Awarded a Captain position (or could have been awarded based on seniority) one year into military. Upon return starts Captain training and should be reimbursed Pension for one year FO and one year Captain. Same for FO to FO on higher paying seat. Best way IMO is to bid accordingly before departing on MIL or during MIL. Leaves a record.

How can you get profit sharing if you aren't drawing a salary from which to derive the profit sharing percentage?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

From a friend at a major, it is based on the seniority number immediately above...

LOBO is correct...PS and 401k contributions will be based off average line value.

To the OP, I know of 1 or 2 other guys that went to the Guard after getting a job at a legacy. If you have a strong desire to serve your country by flying I would jump at an opportunity. I would only recommend applying to Guard squadrons, more specifically ones that won't require you to commute. Being a part timer in the Guard is by far the best job I could ever imagine. In general, your only job is to fly. No bs additional duties, no spending more time behind a desk than in the cockpit. As with everything else there is some bs like SAPR, CBTs, etc... But as a part timer, 90% of the time, I show up, brief, fly, debrief and go home. I have gotten to do more than I could have ever imagined and wouldn't trade my flying in the military for anything. Financially you'll take a hit (however, you won't be in the poor house), but if you go fighters, I guarantee you it will be worth every penny. It sounds like you'll have 35+ years to fly straight and level...you'll kick yourself if you don't at least try! Do it...you'll thank me later!

Some things to consider. You job is protected thanks to USERRA. You will continue to collect your PS checks. You also will get your 401k when you get back from mil leave. You will continue to accrue senioirity. As a part timer you can make a decent paycheck and if you do stay for 20 years, you'll draw another decent retirement check (when you're 60). If things turn south at the airlines, the Guard is a great backup as there are generally opportunities to make money. This year alone I could have gotten a full years worth of pay without trying all that hard. Training isn't easy, but by far the most fun I've ever had, even with Lobo as a UPT IP... Life as a 24 year old, single LT, learning to fly the F-16, while living in a ridiculous bachelor pad in Phoenix definitely didn't suck!

DO NOT go active duty!

Agree with the above.

I know an AA pilot who did what you are considering. He was a MD F/O and heard so many good things about NG/Res flying, he wanted to do it. He completed UPT and flew A-10s back in the late 1980s/early 1990s. He didn't regret a moment of it.

I don't know if he stayed in for 20 or not.

It all depends on for who, and where. I'm an 8 year Eagle guy who went on MIL leave 18 months ago and joined my local C-5 AFRC unit. My goal is to get on with a major, and fly FRED on the weekends. My deciding factors may be different than yours. I started UPT about 6 months before I turned 30. During my interview/rushing, I was turned away by ALL guard units because I was over 28 at the time. If you're still 27 or below, you may still have a chance. All I know is that the RSV's have a lot more flexibility and ability to get your training slot quicker.

It's not all about $$, I don't deploy, but still fly around the world, and I'm only 90 minutes from my unit and don't have to move or fly there.

Good luck

For a ANG fighter unit at DL crew base (ie no commuting to either job)? I'd seriously consider joining the ANG.

AD? Never

USAFR? Maybe.

What ANG/AFRC units, let alone fighter units, are co-located with any airline crew base?

C-130s in MSP. C-5s (C-17s?) in Memphis. I'm sure there are a handful of others, but not many, and certainly not many fighters. Only ones I can think of are F-16s at Andrews (sorta close to DCA/IAD). Homestead F-16s and MIA, but that's a bit of a hike. Not exactly co-located.

Being able to do both mil and civ jobs without commuting would be amazing. And we can all agree- stay as far away from active duty as possible.

DTW (Delta hub) and Toledo F-16s are only about 45 mins apart depending on where you live. There are also A-10s at Selfridge also about 30 mins from DTW. I realize not many people would choose to live in Detroit but thats home for me.

There are fight units within driving distance of NYC, PHL, DCA, SEA, SJC, MIA, etc. Add in C-17's, -135's, C-5's, and the list gets longer.

Not co-located but close enough that you can drive to both jobs.

I made a post a while back of all major airline bases and what bases we're drivable. If you only consider co-located being physc on the same airport then not many. However, Homestead and MIA are within 50 miles of each other, that's about as co-located as you can get!

Atlantic City (F-16s)...PHL/NYC/EWR
*Navy Ft Worth (F-16s)...DFW
*Toledo (F-16)...DTW/CLE
*Selfridge (A-10s)...DTW
Barnes (F-15)...BOS
*Luke Reserves (F-16)...PHX
*Hill Reserves (F-16)...SLC
*Portland (F-15)...PDX
*Buckley (F-16)...DEN
*Baltimore (A-10)...BWI/DCA/IAD
*Andrews (F-16)...BWI/DCA/IAD
Madison (F-16)...ORD/MDW
Montgomery (F-16)...ATL
Duluth (F-16)...MSP

*Denote ones I consider truly living in base for both job. The others, I wouldn't want to drive the distance that some of these bases require, but many are willing. If you open it up to heavies, there are a ridiculous amount of bases that would be drivable.

Flew C-17's in the Reserves at McGuire AFB, lived 50 min from EWR, 80 min from PHL. Like others have said its workable and if you add heavies your opportunities expand greatly.

If ATL based you can live in Auburn, Columbus, LaGrange and have a reasonable drive to Montgomery. Not a 10 minute commute, but reasonable, especially if you aren't drilling daily. COLA is reasonable and the people are great.