Air Reserve Technician or Bum
 

Hello everyone, looking for your professional opinion on a a couple of options I'm currently considering.

First a a little bio of myself. C-17 copilot (about to upgrade to AC) 1400 total time (1200 C-17). ATP holder and averaging 450+ hours a year as a reserve bum.

Was approached by our leadership at the squadron about becoming an ART. Trying to weigh the best option to get to the airlines. Do I become an ART, have a steady paycheck and get fast tracked to Instructor OR stay a bum, fly my butt off as an AC and join a regional next year to check that box? PS my wife works and pulls in a good paycheck so finances are usually pretty secure.

What do you fine gentleman think? What's the best path to the airlines?

You already have the mil ticket punched, so I'd think you'd be better off adding a new realm of relevant resume real estate (121), than polishing the mil apple.

But the way hiring's going just fine, either way should get you there fairly soon.

Food for thought.... ART vs Bum

As a bum you are accruing points toward retirement. Also, for every 90 days of MPA you are getting your retirement 90 days sooner than 60.

As a ART... not so much. most of your time in squadron is civilian. unless you plan on retiring as a ART, you get absolutely no credit for all that time in the squadron (except reserve days). I bummed like you for years and got to major (without regionals). Now, I also get my retirement at 55 and will have close to 5000 points. Best thing I ever did was bum looking back.

IMHO, If you don't need the $ and steady paycheck, I'd just keep bumming. Plus, ask yourself, why are there 200+ ART positions empty and starting in Dec, UPT grads are going to be FORCED to fill them for 4 years (a complete other discussion).

Bum.

Quickest path to the airlines plus who wants to do all the BS work techs do?!
Dont even bother with the regional. Fly every trip possible as an AC. Invites to interview should start rolling in about 1-1.5 yrs after upgrade depending on how much flying you have done. We are past the point of needing to be a mil IP to get to a major.

Bum and go direct to Majors in a year or so

Won't being a bum require being gone from your family a ton? The big question is will you have to commute for the airline's?

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Why bum if you're going to skip the regionals? You can fly your butt off as an ART while getting paid $120k a year. Not sure how the C-17 world is doing for bum life, but in the tanker world, I wouldn't survive at my unit as a bum. Just not enough opportunities to make money and fly aside from spending life in the desert. I'd rather be home almost every night and have a steady paycheck until that major calls me. You can leave whenever you want (which is why they'll never FORCE people to be ART's; it's illegal). Being an ART ain't easy, but you probably wouldn't need to do it more than a few years max. I'd much rather be an ART than living the regional life. Different strokes for different folks.

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As a trougher, I wish being an ART would have been available to me at the time. The condition of being a trougher (bum is what the Guard calls it) is more nuanced than meets the eye. It really depends how your unit doles out the cheese, and how many mouths are trying to feed from the pot at the same time. That leads to surprisingly different outcomes for bums across the system.

Fighter vs heavy. FTU vs combat code. Non-alert vs alert. RPA majority allocation versus MPA majority allocation. It's all over the map. So you're gonna get dramatically slanted answers on here.

In other words: Being put on 30+ orders, all the way to 360 day continuous MPA/RPA is a lot different than the lost decade years of being told local-only, non-commuter sub-30 day chunks. Which in my case were I kid you not, 4 long tread-water years of 4-day orders. Worked like a whipped mule for 60% of AD for more time at work. My AROWS-R account looks like the g-d Library of Congress with that many orders. That's a BIG difference when you're getting paid no per diem, and you're taking R/C-BAH (aka Type II) in lieu of BAH type I. That's where the 60 cents on the dollar paycut comes from. Being an ART is actually a pay raise from that, and bear in mind, we all understand the dramatic paycut doing this job as an ART is for the same hours worked, versus AGR or straight up regAF status.

Btw, this idea that a bum only is expected to fly may assume facts not in evidence. For all we know, if your unit is paying ya in RPA vs MPA, they can just as well ask ya to do qweep for them if you want to get paid. At that point you might as well take the ART job, even with the healthcare TRICARE ineligibility hit. So again, the devil is in the details here.

Otherwise, neither option is going to create problems for your ability to accept a training date at an airline (you might **** off the unit by chucking back 90 days of MPA on them on 4th Qtr just because Delta gave ya an August class date and it's July already though), the way the AGR status potentially does for instance.
You don't want to be like one of my ex-squadron buds who got told no to his AGR curtailment with a Delta CJO in hand. Yikes.

The world is replete with opportunity costs. The "problem" with my advice of taking the ART is that I'm coming at it from a head of household POV. You have a sugar mama, so these nuances seem immaterial to you. All you hear is "the full timer has to do qweep; the bum only has to fly and flock off the rest of the month". I'm with tankerdriver on this one, being an ART doesn't mean you can't fly your rear off. I've known ARTs that end up no kidding troughing themselves. Getting on ridiculous LWOP stints and doing MPA/RPA like bums themselves! It would be absolute blasphemy to allow something like that to occur in the presence of hungry TRs wanting to trough; but in their absence? Absolutely happens. Hate the game not the playa type of thing. Again, nuances.

First world problems. The pot can dry from under you, but in theory the trougher (assuming not taking a de facto AGR chunk of mandays) has much better scheduling flexibility and days off shuffling ability for said paycut. Better healthcare as well under TRS imo depending on region (I find FEHB too expensive). So your call bud. With a sugar mama providing most of the lift it's kind of humblebrag for you to come ask these questions to be honest, but hey more power to ya.

He's not an AC yet and IP is likely a couple years away which means that he rolls in as a GS-12... the pay will be much less than GS-13. He is better off financially bumming then as an ART for now. Bumming has been and should continue to be pretty good in the C-17 world.

I've done all 3 - Bum to ART (3.5 yrs) to TR. to this day, I remain grateful for the ART position. However, I sure do not miss the paperwork involved to fly in either civilian status or military status. I'm happy to be a f-ART!

But, there's always something to be said about the comfort of a full-time job. That's why I was happy to take the ART position. I would not put my family through the stress of the feast or famine lifestyle.

good point. in the herc world, my unit specifically, the bums fly way more than the techs. generally all the "work" trips go to bums first. the easy/cake trips go to 1/2 TRs/Bums and 1/2techs. Maybe I have been spoiled because my unit pick up every trip we can get our hands on. plenty of CONUS trips to be had if you want to fly.

Is it really that easy to make $80k as a C17 bum?

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Gen Jackson signed a memo in June 2016 FORCING all UFT grads to serve as a GS-9 ART for 4 years. I have seen memo students are signing which takes effect with anyone graduating after June 2016.

Yes, it is illegal, but this is the Air Force we live in now.

Edit: signed June, takes effect after Dec 2016

Reserves not Guard.

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Thank you everyone for your replies and opinions. I'm very appreciative that you folks took the time to share this info.

In response to one post, I hope y'all don't feel like I am bragging. I'm very greatful that my squadron thinks enough of me to approach me regarding an ART position. I'm really lucky to have these options available.

It looks like the bum route is more advantageous to my current situation. It gives me a greater flexibility with my schedule and allows for more flying in the end. I think that the ART program would have been a good fit two years ago for me but, at the current ops pace I seem to be making enough to keep our finances in a good spot.

Can a bum make as much as an Art?

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If I flew a little more I would make as much as a GS-12.

Next year because of some deployment and training opportunities I will probably make more.

Wow, if you wanna bum go C17's.

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Looks like we have a lot of inconsistances between AFRC and the ANG. ALL technicians are back to the GS-13 payscale. No more GS-12 bull****, which should have never happened in the first place. Some units are even hiring at higher than Step 1 (Step 6-7 level for a new hire). I've heard the reserves are at like <75% fulltime manning. Who in their right F'n mind would be hiring at GS-12 levels. Your standard "admin officer" PD is a GS-12. You can't hire an officer at a GS-9. Absolutely f'n ridiculous. I hope to god people aren't stupid enough to sign agreements like that just to go to UPT, but I'm sure some are. Poor form on the Reserve side. In the ANG, I'd like to say we have a revolving door on the ART side, but it's more like "exit only". The last two GS-13's we hired were right out of UPT. Two 2Lt's landed GS-13 jobs. Boy, have times changed. I'm still bleeding from the days I almost cut off a left testicle to be a full timer. We can't even fill AGR positions with the people they're targeting to fill them with (O-4, IP/EP types). Noone wants it.

So what is the punitive action for an individual who signs an agreement to do 4 years as a GS-9 and then decides to go to the airlines? NONE? The OPM doesn't support that. They can QUIT whenever they want. Are they going to kick these individuals out of the unit militarily? On what grounds?

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Is being an Art that bad or are guys easily swayed to the airlines? I'm surprised people would rather commute then take a full-time spot in the Guard.

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???

What does an ART top out at? I don't think there are SES ARTs. When do ARTs have to retire? I'm guessing well before age 65.

Airline people can make $300k working eight days/month

At what airline can someone commuting make 300k working 8 days?

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I don't have much knowledge about the reserve world. I did 20 years active and got my 04 retirement in 1988 to ease the transition to airline new hire pay. I put in 18 years at UAL. My military retirement is now my main source of income. My Tricare for life is my medicare supplement. Other UAL guys my age are spending big bucks for their retiree insurance. I had a great airline career, but you never know how even a great career will end up. My military retirement really has saved my butt.

60 with 20 years of service. 55-57 with 30 years of service. The kicker is that as a Lt Col, you'll need a waiver to continue past 28 years (which is not a gimmie) and you can also be non-retained from your military position, which means you lose your ART job along with your military job.

If the ANG and AFRC want to impose full-time service commitments and make people work as ART's, this will not facilitate the use of USERRA rights if someone is on leave from a civilian job. If they want people there full-time, cough up the AGR tours. They like making civilian and military duties one in the same when it works for them, but in reality, the work rules between ART duty and military duty are two different ballgames.

ART gigs top out at $124,805 as a GS-13-10 with the 30% pilot "bonus". OG/CC's are commonly GS-14's who top out at $147,477 at Step 10 and WG/CC's could go to GS-15-10, which tops out at $173,477 (plus military pay on top of all that). Take at least $10-15k off the top to pay into bennies, then taxes.

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Another issue is your health care. No Tricare reserve select for ARTs so unless your wife carries the insurance make sure to add that huge hunk of change when doing the math on which is better.

Once again, as has been highlighted ad nauseam already on APC, ART is a huge paycut to do a regAF job until 57-60, both on the income and retirement fronts. AGR is much better, but does not facilitate the transition to the airlines due to risk of non-curtailment. Bumming is cyclic and the least steady of the three, but offers the most scheduling flexibility.

ARTs generally end up being those guys who aren't interested or can't get hired at the airlines. Otherwise, people use ART jobs as revolving doors to transition to airline work, or as bunker jobs during periods of airline furlough. The OP can't go wrong with either choice in this hiring environment. Only the AGR would be ill-advised for him at this juncture in his career. Don't hang your hat on anything though, things change quickly in this business, military included.

As to AFRC, yeah they've lost their minds a while ago down there in Robins. Absolutely no fidelity with what's going on at the unit-level it seems. They're taking their cues from Pentagon "liaisons" fielding phone calls to airline management. They're clueless. I'm loving the pyrotechnics right now. This thing is burning and even the regAF loaner furniture is catching on fire. That TFI I tell ya, sure isn't popular amongst the plebes. LOL

What happens if you hit 30 years before 55?

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Welcome to the abyass of the grey area reservist

You'll be continued until being eligible for FERS retirement, but dies require a high year tenure waiver. I was an ART for 17 years left at 52 and went into a civil job that was a temp pay cut but has turned into a much better deal. ART is not a bad deal when there's no airline hiring, a damned poor career, though.

GF

Is it that bad or unit dependent?

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What I mean is besides pay and benefits is the day to day work that much different than an AGR?

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Work is pretty much the same, ART or AGR. Manage fires, training records, make sure the reservists fill their squares. The problem I saw was there is little opportunity in the program--squadron pilot, SQ/DO, move or PME in residence, move, OG/CC, move, WG/CC, if you're lucky and political, SES position at AFRC HQ. Moving is one discriminator--move you're a hero, don't move, you're a squadron goat.There's little other opportunities like AD would offer, for better or worse.

I did meet a ANG AGR who was the AF Attaché in South Africa. If you're ANG, it's worse, hard to move out of state to progress, just wait til an 0-6 dies or retires.

I stayed because it worked and when the airlines started hiring, I got settled and didn't want to be 50 and junior--did that at 33 at EAL. A former reservist helped me into this position just when the heat to move got to be too much. And moving MIGHT have gotten me a small wing command to retire at GS-15 at age 55. Whoopi!

GF

Didn't realize moving was asked. I thought that was the perk of being in the ANG.

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Moving as in from one office to another.... you know what he means Gilligan...

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In the AFRC, it move every 3-5 years, if you want to get to wing commander or even make GS14. You can homestead in a unit, but staying as the squadron scheduler would suck.

ANG is different, you can't move except in state with some exceptions.

GF

Hell I know a guy who had to take a demotion to GS-12 when he changed airplanes to one where he wasn't an IP yet. Complete buffoon show this AFRC ART system. He was pay protected, so he still got paid as GS-13 until he makes IP in the new-to-him airframe, but still, it's the damn principle.

I used to be more conservative in my thinking, but after watching friends die and/or lose medicals, I'm much more carefree these days. You only live once. Much like there's always old age to fly airliners, there's always a furlough ahead to dabble in the ART migrant labor. So why do it in the good times? Carpe diem homies. :D

Our HR takes a certificate of graduation of some sort of IP course to justify the GS-13 payscale. Doesn't matter if their current crew position is IP or not. Of course this is our process. So much for standardization...

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Agreed TD, I took several guts from the KC-10 to the C-5 who held their GS13 position while upgrading back to IP in the -5.

GF

The best answer for you and your family is not necessarily the same answer for me and mine.

As a Major w/12 yrs on the pay scale troughing, I was getting paid over 30 days a month. When I was deciding to take the GS-13 level 1, I figured I'd fly once and sit one alert a week in military status. That gave me an extra $1k net a month while I waited for the airlines.

It was simple for me. Did I want the desk job? Absolutely not. But did I want the extra $$ and stability of schedule where I got paid many days of leave/holiday to sit at home? Totally. Just had to make sure I was still flying and accruing hours.

Unless you're one of these T-DART new guys where AFRC is trying to get you to sign a commitment, you'll have ZERO commitment to the civilian job. Laughing all the way to the bank ain't a bad way to go.

AFRC now throwing around the idea of back-converting ART-to-AGR. This after the last 6 years of the AGR-to-ART conversion shenanigans that wrecked havoc on the lives and homefront-planning of so many full timers. The irony of it all. Yes, I'm relishing in the vindication, even if the retrofit doesn't occur. They just plain admitted it with this.

I also hear, nothing has got done regarding the proposals to increase -2181 series SSRs to include locality pay (in essence a 15% bump), plus an increase to the retirement multiplier (ATC and LEO get 1.7%). My guess is the whole thing got stonewalled by OPM. Those guys are literally more responsible for the lack of readiness and manning in DOD installations than anything the Taliban or the Iraqi insurgency ever threw at us. What *expletive* team are they on anyways? Sack of make work data-breaching remoras....

It seems this retrofit proposal is in line with an uncooperative civilian federal hiring office from where I sit. I knew they were never going to be able to push those pay increases in this political environment, where every public sector employee is demonized as being part of the fiscal problem. Even wearing a military uniform full time doesn't spare you the wrath of the private industry American worker schadenfreude. In their eyes, anyone with an employer-funded retirement is part of the problem, while they grovel in their manifest destiny income insolvency in their 60s and beyond. And no, mickey mouse 401k match is not bona fide employer-funded retirement, not anymore than my auntie still giving me 23 dollars every Xmas is. Classic "Misery loves company" behavior. I digress.

To be clear, the proposal wasn't bad. A GS-13 with essentially an SSR of 45% bump from the basic GS table (i.e. the current SSR, but not in lieu of locality pay), Tricare elegibility (<--essentially a 500 net/mo payraise) and a 1.4% retirement multiplier (<--this one still blew) is a 'yuge improvement in conditions. As an AGR with a location hardship, I would have taken that if it meant a decent location for my family, as someone not otherwise married to the idea of airline work if say stuck with a high COL commute due to bad hiring timing. Surprise surprise, they knew it was good, so they shelved it. As it stands, no way I can forego an AGR or even the opportunity cost of playing russian roulette with a main-4 airline, for the current ART pay/retirement setup.

Now, the wildcard will be if they actually implement the retrofit. Same logic says they won't, and considering the timeline of airline hiring, they'll continue to bleed folks out of the classic ART jobs, as they are simply noncompetitive in this environment. Too much of a paycut, especially in retirement. Granted, this won't help the folks trying to get hired by the airlines, because they won't touch the AGR until after they get hired, and this will encourage the rate at which newhires drop 5 year MLOA on airlines, which in my personal opinion doesn't help the hiring case for reservist mil applicants coming after them but I digress.

The bleed continues.....