KSUto64

I'm wrestling with the idea of going from army aviation to the airlines. Some background info:
Graduate of a 141 degree program. Finished through my CFI.
Joined the army as a warrant officer and now fly helos.
I have 2 years left on my adso so I can't leave anytime soon. When should I start networking/applying. I'm only 29 and at 6 years of service time so I believe financially in the long run I'd be better off if I jumped ship as soon as possible and not wait til retirement.

I'm familiar with envoys new program for military RW guys. Is there any talk of other airlines adopting something similar? Reason being I am short about 35 hours PIC and 12 multi from what envoy posts as their minimums to get hired. I meet the r-ATP requirements and on 2 years I'll be close if not over the 1500 total time for the ATP.

Has anyone made the switch recently? Are you happy with your decision?
Am I restricted from applying to other majors once in envoys program? Would my background give me a leg up/make me competitive for majors at a lower hour mark than someone with no military background?

KSUto64

I'm wrestling with the idea of going from army aviation to the airlines. Some background info:
Graduate of a 141 degree program. Finished through my CFI.
Joined the army as a warrant officer and now fly helos.
I have 2 years left on my adso so I can't leave anytime soon. When should I start networking/applying. I'm only 29 and at 6 years of service time so I believe financially in the long run I'd be better off if I jumped ship as soon as possible and not wait til retirement.

I'm familiar with envoys new program for military RW guys. Is there any talk of other airlines adopting something similar? Reason being I am short about 35 hours PIC and 12 multi from what envoy posts as their minimums to get hired. I meet the r-ATP requirements and on 2 years I'll be close if not over the 1500 total time for the ATP.

Has anyone made the switch recently? Are you happy with your decision?
Am I restricted from applying to other majors once in envoys program? Would my background give me a leg up/make me competitive for majors at a lower hour mark than someone with no military background?

Otterbox

Piedmont also has a Helo to Hero program. Contact their recruiter for details.

BeatNavy

Most if not all regionals will take you with r-ATP mins. If you have 25 hours of multi you are good to go. The rest to meet the 50 can be done in the sim in your initial. The 250 hours of airplane PIC is a stiff requirement. If you got a CFI shouldn't you have the requisite airplane PIC time? Your best bet is to get current (get CFI current if you aren't) and try to get some side flying gigs while you are in. Some of my army buddies CFId on weekends or flew at drop zones. I flew at a tour company on weekends. And I bought a plane. Killed a few birds with one stone with that one. Sold it for more than I bought it.

Your mil background will help a little with jetblue and maybe some others, but not much with the legacies/FDX/UPS/SWA. They think helo time is equivalent to dog poop for whatever reason. I still think decision making, SA, talking on radios, flying/airmanship is all the same, and the mil training is worth something. Airline flying is a lot easier than any army flying I did, but airlines don't seem to care much about army helo time. If you are an IP or safety that will help fill a square on an app. Tacops/mtp not so much. If you aren't tracked try to track safety before you get out.

Fwiw there are a lot of army helo dudes in the regionals right now. I flew with some who have been there 15-20 years and never made it out. Most of the army guys who have a bunch of c12/uc35/G5 time can bypass the regionals, but have thousands of hours of fw turb PIC.

Your timing is good. Lots of retirements and lots of hiring in the next few years. Hopefully you won't have to slug it out in the regionals long.

Is it worth it? Maybe. I was single in the army and didn't mind deployments. Had good friends. I got out when I had a family. Wanted to be home more and not deploy. I'm gone half the month, but I'm not getting shot at. When I lived in base at my first airline and drove to work I was home more. It's a job that pays bills. Sometimes I think about leaving the industry and getting a real job and making a better living. But I don't want a desk job and to take work home with me. My last job was a company commander and it was as miserable (or more) as it was rewarding. Ymmv as a WO.

Medical sucks at airlines compared to military. Continuing in the ARNG/ANG can ease the transition from decent pay and benefits in the mil to airlines, especially regionals. Drop mil leave to escape the airline scene. And keep tricare. If you have a degree, look at the ANG.

I commute across the country 4x a month, sit in a crashpad in NYC, make less than half what I made when I got out of the Army on first year "major" airline pay. I'm at one of the more "chill" and "cool" airlines, but I still experience everything in here on a daily basis: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rNxz2hhSXuY The only thing hard/stressful about the job is being gone. And commuting. And maybe the few minutes out of thousands of hours that an emergency presents itself...but I haven't ditched in the Hudson or Sioux Citied a dc10 yet so I can't say how hard that is. Nothing I've had has been more than reading/doing some checklists. I will miss Christmas and New Years. Hopefully my kids don't resent me later in life for choosing an easy job that causes me to miss holidays because I don't want to work hard doing a real job. I'm working 9 out of the next 11 days. I don't even have any real options to get home any days inbetween. This job might be worth it at some point. That's what I tell my wife. I average 15 days off a month. With as much movement as there is in the next few years, good schedules will hopefully become a reality sooner rather than later. On reserve I flew 8-20 hours in the slow months. I sat in my crashpad wanting to stab my eyeballs out from boredom. If I lived in base then that would be money.

You won't hang out with your airline buddies like you do your army buddies. You'll live in a regular non-army town most likely, and the dudes you fly with will usually not live anywhere near you. You will have beers with them on overnights, and that's usually it. My troop and their families were my friends wherever I was in the army. Always had friends and social activities/parties. I have a family now with kids of mixed ages, some really little, so that's part of it. But I don't have my airline buddies over. I don't know many airline guys who hang out with their coworkers. That's one big thing that's different. If you were in the guard that'd be another way to keep the brotherhood from the military. Or maybe you don't care about it. I dropped it. Keep in touch with some friends from the army. Not a lot.

TL;DR: This is a job. Nothing more, nothing less. You show up, look briefly at some paperwork, do a quick walk around, load the FMS, hand fly for a couple minutes at the beginning and end, autopilot the rest of the time, answer a few radio calls. Do that 1-5 times a day. Go to hotel. Rinse repeat for 3 more days. Go home. Don't talk to a boss. Don't get OERs. Don't have promotion boards. Don't have SHARP/EO training. Or CBRN training. Or any of that other fun stuff. You won't have an airline family that you hang out with unless you are stuck in a crashpad on reserve for a while.

Sorry for the rambling. Hope you got a little perspective from it.

banana380

Great response from Beatnavy (go navy!). I'm waiting for the envoy program, and I was told if you take the money they put into you for the RTP then you owe them 2 years. Which is nice because it is the same timeline for the full bonuses, currently 22K.

With your hours where they are you could probably get the mins for r-ATP on your own then pick whatever regional is closest to you. In 2 years who knows what the best option will be.

Good luck!


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Sliceback

Short of hours? Rent. Or CFI on the side at the local airport. Or GI bill the multi engine license. That would get you a chunk of the 12 hrs.

Go reserves and get your 20 yrs.

Get on with a regional ASAP.

You can apply to any company while working for someone else.

Helo time is typically valued at zero for the Big 4. I think JB and Spirit count it towards their requirements. You'll get a bump for service and aviation training perhaps but the time is typically given a zero, or close to that. You'll get credit for additional qualifications of Stan/Eval, IP, Safety, etc. So most of your flight hours for competitive purposes will come from the civilian flying.

You'll separate at 31. Civilian wise you'll be pushing 3000 hrs at 35, 5,000 at 38. That might be the sweet spot. But requirements might lower in the 6-9 years I mentioned as the retirement bubble expands.

fiftyone

Thanks for all the feedback. I have 950 turbine rotor hours with 133 FW hours. I have approximately two years before I am retirement eligible, so I am trying to finish up my FW ratings to be ready for the transition.

fiftyone

I must have misread some of your posts, or I am getting them confused with all the other candidates trying to figure out what to do? I thought you at least already applied to one or more regionals.

banana380

Interviewed at ENY a few months ago; big Navy is dragging their feet with my discharge. I'm at about 80-85 hrs FW PIC with them counting all my first pilot time from Primary, so they're my only shot at the airlines. I'm not gonnna drop the 15-20K it would take to buy the time I need otherwise.

155mm

What are requirements for 135 IFR PIC Airplane? Do Helicopter hours count?