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Old 10-21-2011 | 02:59 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by jungle
There are few sights in this world as wonderful as watching grown men drop their crude weapons and flee at your arrival.
Just in case you were referring to me, you don't know whether everyone engaging you is a man or a woman. Also, nobody makes me drop any weapons, crude or otherwise, especially you.
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Old 10-22-2011 | 02:48 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by LeftWing
Wow, you really made my point for me and you didn't even know it. The fact is the corn refiner lobby used their pull to get these tariffs approved so that they could make money selling HFCS to all of the soft drink and food companies, effectively making it such that they had to use HFCS because cane sugar now costs too much. So much for that "free market". (also, please learn the COMPLETE history of an issue before trying to use it, as it may be turned back against you (as I did here))

The FACT is that anyone that thinks the so-called free market is the panacea for society is a sucker.
You would have a good point if it had been the corn growers who had imposed the tariff. It was, however, the government.

I am not saying that agriculture generally, or the sweetener industry specifically, was somehow unregulated prior to sugar tariffs in the 1970s. I am saying that a bad regulatory decision by the government made things worse.

A free market does not imply that there is no government involved. But the taxes, regulations, and other impositions by the gov't should be set at the beginning and not constantly changed. The ability by regulators to rig the game--through inefficiency, stupidity, or corruption--is what screws up the market.

WW
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Old 10-22-2011 | 04:27 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by LeftWing
Your one example of prohibition proves nothing as prohibition involves much more than economics.

As for my one word example, there truly are thousands.
Thalidomide


How did that work out for the "free unregulated market"?

Regulation should not be the baby thrown out with the bathwater.
I don't think that is quite as much of a slam dunk as you might. The government was already regulating drugs prior to thalidomide--at least since the new deal and I think back to the progressive era in the early 20th century. The drug industry was neither free nor unregulated when thalidomide was brought to market.

After thalidomide, the FDA got more money, more power. There are still FDA approved drugs that turn out badly--there was just an Avandia commercial on ESPN trolling for litigants. The FDA resticts or bans use of some cancer therapies because they haven't gone through the paperwork mill.

I'm not sure we are getting anything from the FDA that we couldn't get from a healthy tort industry (which we have) and a medical system that has good access to information.

WW
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Old 10-23-2011 | 04:44 AM
  #34  
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On July 16, 1998, the FDA approved the use of thalidomide for the treatment of lesions associated with Erythema Nodosum Leprosum (ENL). Because of thalidomide's potential for causing birth defects, the drug may be distributed only under tightly controlled conditions. The FDA required that Celgene Corporation, which planned to market thalidomide under the brand name Thalomid, establish a System for Thalidomide Education and Prescribing Safety (S.T.E.P.S.) oversight program. The conditions required under the program include limiting prescription and dispensing rights only to authorized prescribers and pharmacies, keeping a registry of all patients prescribed thalidomide, providing extensive patient education about the risks associated with the drug, and providing periodic pregnancy tests for women who take the drug.[34] On May 26, 2006, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration granted accelerated approval for thalidomide (Thalomid, Celgene Corporation) in combination with dexamethasone for the treatment of newly diagnosed multiple myeloma (MM) patients.[35] The FDA approval came seven years after the first reports of efficacy in the medical literature[36] and Celgene took advantage of "off-label" marketing opportunities to promote the drug in advance of its FDA approval for the myeloma indication. Thalomid, as the drug is commercially known, sold over $300 million per year, while only approved for leprosy.

================================================== =============



There is virtually no possible way to predict all effects of any drug. That is why TV has a host of legal action commercials for the scourge of unknown drug effects and the scourge of the IRS.

The choice we have is not perfection through an all-knowing state or total failure of free markets.

No solution can ever get it completely right, the examples provided show the state more often gets it completly wrong.
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Old 10-23-2011 | 08:30 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Winged Wheeler
It is envy, rather than greed, that motivates the OWS rabble.

WW
An entire political movement born by violating the 10th Commandment, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods".

This is not to say that those who hurt people while manipulating markets to acquire wealth are guiltless. Bottom line is two wrongs don't make a right.
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Old 10-23-2011 | 11:35 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by LeftWing
Just in case you were referring to me, you don't know whether everyone engaging you is a man or a woman. Also, nobody makes me drop any weapons, crude or otherwise, especially you.
My mistake, you never had any weapons, just a sad faith based belief system completely devoid of facts or logic.


===============================================

The Food and Drug Administration of the United States never licensed thalidomide for general use; according to Time Magazine, "In the half dozen reported U.S. cases of birth malformations due to thalidomide, the drug was obtained from abroad."[14] However, samples had been distributed to a number of physicians as part of a clinical trial, in which 20,000 patients in the U.S. received thalidomide. [15]

================================================== ======

Another failure by the rulemakers, sold as a great work for public safety.

Everyone makes mistakes, the sooner we stop thinking some group has all the answers and stop allowing ourselves to be coerced in our freedom of economic choice, the sooner we will all be better off.
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Old 10-25-2011 | 06:04 AM
  #37  
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Default The protest goes interplanetary

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Old 10-30-2011 | 07:12 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Winged Wheeler
In the 1970s, US gov't tariffs raised the price of sugar sufficiently to make it economically viable to produce and use high fructose corn syrup.

Interesting graph ,save a few dollars now and pay later in higher medical costs due to the risks associated with obesity,etc.



Ally
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Old 10-31-2011 | 04:30 AM
  #39  
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It is a sad fantasy many believe that some group of people is capable of fixing all of our problems by denial of our economic freedom of choice. Won't work, never has and never will.




If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849
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Old 12-08-2011 | 04:35 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Winged Wheeler
You would have a good point if it had been the corn growers who had imposed the tariff. It was, however, the government.

I am not saying that agriculture generally, or the sweetener industry specifically, was somehow unregulated prior to sugar tariffs in the 1970s. I am saying that a bad regulatory decision by the government made things worse.


WW
Of course the corn growers did not directly impose the tariff. However, the government doesn't act alone in such industry matters without the big money influence of said industry. Lobbying 101. Thanks again for making my point.


Originally Posted by Winged Wheeler
A free market does not imply that there is no government involved. But the taxes, regulations, and other impositions by the gov't should be set at the beginning and not constantly changed. The ability by regulators to rig the game--through inefficiency, stupidity, or corruption--is what screws up the market.
Again, regulators "rig the game" not without the influence of money.
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