How is the quality of life at netjets?
 

I’m thinking about leaving the regionals because I’m tired of being away from home all the time.

How’re the schedules at netjets? How many days do you get sleep in your own bed a month?

That depends on you and a little seniority.

Traditional schedule is 7 days on and 7 days off, so that's 6 nights away from home in a row.

You can work more or less and spend more or less nights away from home. The least (or best) schedule can offer at minimum 4 nights away from home in a row.

Our new CBA (assuming it passes) rewards those financially who spend more time in a row away from home, unfortunately.

The more days you work and the more days you work in a row, the more you make.

Good luck.

For those that work there how often do customers smoke and do you smell it up front or just put on your mask?


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Oh yes, you definitely smell it. The oxygen mask helps, but makes it really hard to work when you have to wear it for an extended period, whether it's for a smoker or a high-altitude flight.

Fortunately a smoking flight only happened to me every couple of months, but when it did, it was horrible. The smoke makes my eyes burn, and saturates every soft surface of the plane -- the carpet, the seats, the sidewalls, everything -- and it stinks for days unless you're lucky enough to get it cleaned right away. Then it only stinks for a day or so, with a mix of carpet shampoo and smoke. :(

If you're lucky enough to get a heads-up that you have a smoker, you can put your uniform jacket and overcoat in the cargo bin. Otherwise, they're going to smell like a casino too until they get dry cleaned.

They are pretty rare now. It's been at least a couple years since I've had a smoker onboard.

Now watch as my entire next week will be chain smokers.....

How did you not know you’d be away...a lot?

Try to get a gig like a friend has on a Global...9 days a month, max, often less. Fly the owner out to one of his homes, airline home, a couple weeks or a month later, airline out and fly to the next location. Pays like a runaway slot machine. Haven’t hired in 18 years.


Gf

This is the equivalent of telling of telling somebody to go get hired at Delta because they’re hiring.

That global job is a 91 unicorn gig and you can probably count those gigs on both hands and have a finger or two left over.

True, but there are more of those gigs than you guess, I know at least five just around me. Private equity guys like to be home, hence the plane for some of them. Another friend works about the same and has never expenses an adult beverage except on the annual vacation trip. Another one basically spends the winter up and down the east coast. Yet another works two weeks on, two off and frequently doesn’t fly on his “on” period.

Everyone of these have zero turnover and would require extreme networking when an opening happened.

GF

CRJLife... You should think long term.

Personally I’d take NetJets over a Part91 gig. I’ve done both, plus 4 different 121 operations. Taking the quick move to make life a little easier doesn’t always pan out the way we think it will 10 years down the road.




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My luck was about 2-3x/month. The 4-5hr flights were the most difficult with a smoker.

I smoke cigars on occasion and have a fairly extensive collection of fine cigars so I can appreciate it.

That being said, I almost always had to fatigue after flying a smoking flight. Something about breathing it in at altitude would always make me sick.

Try 11 hours of non-stop cigar smoking on an international leg. Did I mention that the outflow valve is JUST forward of the crew rest area?

I hate to see customers leave the company but I was doing hand springs when that guy bought his own airplane. Still can't figure out how he found a couple of pilots for it, especially at the price he was offering. Revolving door springs to mind....

I'd love to see who took the job.

One of our FOs interviewed and ALMOST took it. He chose well.

The guy who took it? Not so much.

Hey guys, sorry to get off track. I just had my Phone Interview and I was told from the gal on the other end that there is a 10yr upgrade time and it might get lower with the new TA.
Is that 10yr upgrade fact or fake news? And do y’all think it will stay at 10yrs or get lower? Thanks and happy Holidays.

Seeing as how there are 12 and 15 year F.O.s there and I know of a couple that post here regularly. This has been discussed ad nauseam. The numbers just don't allow seeing as you have folks in their 80's still flying for NJA. Hence why they were hoping for the 65 to 67 retirement ages. Issue is the ICAO standards. The top guys on the ILC metal have to come down to the smaller metal because of these limits. It's a shuffling game. Who knows. Upgrades are as high as giraffe p****** In other words. Stagnation stagnation stagnation. Things might move quickly if the new agreement passes. Fingers crossed!!!

Definitely NOT fake news. We have people hired in 2005 just now upgrading. Into a Phenom. :eek:Unless they won the genetic lottery and can’t fit so they go to the Excel or, better yet, the Latitude.

There is a seniority gap from when we weren’t hiring that will shorten upgrade a little but without a much-needed mandatory retirement age, it’s a totally moving target.

Count on a minimum of 10 years if hired tomorrow. If a retirement age happens, maybe 8. And hopefully, by the time 2027-28 rolls around, there will be a new entry-level Barbie jet that a real human can fit into.

All the while earning 50-60% of what your flight school buddies are making at Delta, AA, SWA, etc.

I would like to know why someone in hiring thinks the IBI would decrease the upgrade time?

Because how else would they recruit? Upgrades aren’t at the 10 year mark right now. Will they be? Yea probably. Lower than that? Maybe someday. The IBI and upgrades have no link. If there were ANY connection to upgrades and the IBI it would actually be detrimental to upgrades as this is going to create a need for less pilots. That’s less captains and first officers. Also, senior captains that were thinking of retiring will don the adult diapers and fly until they die because of the pay increase.

Not only does the IBI not stop attrition, it actually negatively affects upgrades and hiring.

Absolutely.

The ONLY reason upgrade time MIGHT shorten is the total lack of hiring for several years leading to a sudden change in relative seniority when the current 50-60 demographic (a substantial percentage of the list) begins to retire or lose their medical in the next decade.

The 2015 CBA and the IBI were designed to blunt the impact of those statistics and encourage more flying by fewer pilots. That will delay upgrades and hiring until, sooner or later, the numbers catch up.

Regardless, without a mandatory retirement age, it will always be a moving target.

Long story short, if you're under 40 and career earnings are important to you, look elsewhere. Same story, different day.

Supposedly the FAA is re-writing the 135 age and duty time rules to look more like 121, it's being pushed to also closer reflect ICAO. We'll see. One thing I definitely am seeing is older guys getting displaced and saying they are passing on another type rating, I know several who are just waiting for the TA bonus before leaving.

That happened in 2015. Lots of guys took recall at the airlines the second the bonus hit their accounts.

I really wish that was true.

It would be really interesting if a 135 duty re-write made earning IBI money nearly impossible.

There is no positive link, to be clear. Pilot numbers are down around 400 from 2015, they will further decline without operational issue, because of the IBI.

Look at 2019 hiring numbers versus attrition. For all intent and purpose, the net gain for pilots was almost nothing, like less than 10 pilots. If management can get the current crop of donkeys that will never retire, to pull more load, they don’t need to grow.

Management really nailed this one and the pilot group has no idea what hit them, but also, the pilot group has a history of ignoring the big picture for some quick cash.

On a seven day tour, it's an average of less than two hours of flight per day to be into IBI money. So I don't see that happening.

We may well see a handful of people waiting for the check to clear before departing the pattern. If it pushes more fossils out the door, great.

But when it comes to the 135/91K re-write, I can only say one thing: Be careful what you wish for.

My opinion (so you know its a fact) is that once they have their "sea legs" on scheduling people post-IBI, they will run numbers on how much more we can do as crews....think "what are the duty and flight numbers?". Then based on that, sales gets more aggressive and any IBI money is easily superseded by the new amount of owners picked up (although more likely 135 cards). Want proof anyone? Ask yourself why we only get filed time plus .2. Taxi/EDCT times, holding, WX deviations TMIs, etc are NOT payable or even countable in the formula. Next thing you know, we're all doing 12 or 14 hour days again. Sure, get paid a little more, albeit not what we actually are flying but an amount less. But the $$ they make in new revenue far outweighs it.
And before we get our resident NJA cheerleaders in here saying "but you may only go .1 or .2 off on the numbers"....think large scale: 2700 pilots at .2, around 10 days per month.....that's big money they save. They're making out like bandits on this one.

I'll take trip pay over no pay. Buddy just ended his week with approximately 2,000 IBI dollars.

So much angst over not getting block or better, when we have been flying for decades with zero extra dollars for busting ass.

So you think this is really going to end up being a potentially out of the blue, 40,000 dollar raise for every pilot? Do you just hope that, or do you really truely believe that?

I never implied that at all. We all have our busy weeks and our easy weeks. My friend had a relatively busy week and earned 2,000 extra dollars. Never did I say that every tour will be as profitable. But over the year, it will be a tangile bump in pay. Personally I'm thinking it will be around 20-25K on the busier fleets. Not 40K on average for everyone.

Why are all of your arguments predicated on putting words in others' mouths?

I’m just asking if you actually believe what you presume to be coming, or if it is mere hope because you’ve been there so long and you deserve it. I’m on your side I really am, but at what point is the pilot group going to wipe delusion from the action plan?

You’re even talking like the IBI passed and you’re not the only one to do this, my friends that I talk to are also doing this. Your buddy didn’t make 2,000 extra bucks, the IBI hasn’t passed yet lol. I know it will pass and they are tracking pay so he will get back pay but I’m merely just asking if all this money people think NJA is allowing you to make is pure hope or so deep down, you believe it.

It wasn’t 6 months ago that management wouldn’t give a dime in the IBI and talks broke twice. You don’t find that odd?

No, you specifically asked if I felt it would be a 40K bump on average for everyone.

You just keep moving the goal posts until they fit whatever narrative you're trying to create.

On getting a pay raise, using the actual average number of flight hours per crew member, there is simply no mathematical way to continue doing the flying the group is already doing without a reasonable bump in pay. I'll be happy to keep track of my flight pay in 2019 and report back, until then, enjoy moving those goal posts.

I’m not trying to move the goal posts, so sorry if I’m doing that.

I do find it interesting that you think the company won’t move the goal posts or that the culture of NJA won’t change dramatically.

What goal posts can the company move? The 12.1 is in writing and it's in the company's best interests to keep the metal moving with owners onboard. It's not like the company can say "oh we meant 20 hours per tour", like you do with your arguments.

Lol man you’ve been there way too long to ignore that scheduling has ultimate control over you.

I am actually doing nothing of the sort of my arguments. You are basing pre IBI flying to post IBI flying and making up numbers. And you think that is more realistic than fatigue numbers plummeting and flight hours drastically reducing.

I may move the goal posts, but you are ignoring the soccer field all together.

Of course scheduling has ultimate control. But owners want to fly their planes and that isn't going to change. What do you personally think a guy like me, on a fleet that earns its keep, will make in IBI bucks in 2019? You seem to have all the answers for a company you are not associated with, so let's hear it.

This entire process was originally being sold as a way to improve QOL on the road. Now that most realize scheduling will NEVER change, it’s being sold as a “pay raise.”

The simple fact is, we won’t know for sure until a year from now. But for me, I’ll be shocked if I gross an additional 15K and I expect just as much, if not more, hot spare since my fleet is becoming the Universal Recovery Machine as it nears disposal.

The sickest part is, as another pilot in my fleet put it, the IBI is a recipe for corruption. The A Team (or Bubba Club in Okatie parlance) will get even more rich as their E Bay bids on used Dixie cups guarantee them even more of the long-range, high time flying while the rest of the kids get beat up with short, multiple leg days and pantloads of airport appreciation time.

Let’s compare notes next Christmas.

Speaking of which, have a Merry one.

...the *union* pilot group.
Please don’t throw me in with the rest of the blind fools who took the bait. I voted Nay.

Yea I would say the majority.

So funny, 2015 CBA, you couldn't find somebody that said they voted yes. Everyone you asked as a universal "hell no!" and then the results came out. 3 out of 4 voted yes. This will be no different, (not saying that you didn't vote no) but this will probably pass in the 80% area and everyone will be a no vote in the crew rooms.

You referring to the large cabin? They will make out like wet bandits with this new IBI. Think about their day 1 traveling international and making 24+ hours of OT....