Non-sequitur. Curbing pollution and wanting clean air, vs potential "climate change" having nothing to do with other.

Let me know what you think. It struck me as one of the more level-headed commentaries on the topic.

Durrrrh, climate change isn't real!

Dur HURRRRR!!!

Quick! If you don’t convert your house to solar, Al Gore says New York City will be under water by 2005.

He didn't say that though did he. And solar is smart from a financial standpoint, regardless of whether you like to hug trees or not. Does having solar on your roof make you a "leftie" too?

nope. I’m all for solar because of the financial aspect as you mentioned. I’ve considered it myself. But before the narrative had to change
to climate crisis, I remember in the 90s that global warming was going to cause New York and the east coast to be under water in the next 10-20 years.

They had to raise the height of the streets in Miami beach.
"With an average elevation of about 4 feet, Miami Beach is at risk of chronic severe flooding. The sea at the southern end of the Florida Peninsula has risen 1 foot since the 1990s and sunny day floods are four times more frequent today compared to 15 years ago.Dec 2, 2021."

I s this B.S. too?

Do you realize how dumb that just sounded?
Please share which university awarded you your science & physics degree.

Could you send me the link?

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

No one wrote that "climate change isn't real"

Of course the climate changes, it is dynamic, not static.

Are humans having a measurable effect? No one knows for sure. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or ignorant.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

There is currently no scientific consensus that climate change is being affected by human activity.

I guess Bill Gates is wrong then. I mean he's clearly an idiot. Next they'll be saying that all the plastic in the oceans is caused by humans too!

Not dumb at all. CO2 is not pollution. Smartest thing the climate alarmists ever did was shorten it to carbon. Brings to mind black dusty stuff.

The CFCs you brought up earlier was, in fact, pollution and was dealt with to great effect. CO2 is necessary for life as plants convert it to oxygen so we can stay alive. If you do some research, there is lots of scientific data that CO2 levels follow temperature rather than cause it to rise.

Of course climate is changing. It's been changing since the beginning of the Earth's existence. It will continue to change. We have roughly 125 to 150 years of decent data. The planet is billions of years old. Sample size is way too small to declare anything.

Anyone who has been a pilot for any time at all knows a forecast is good for 18 to maybe 30 hours max. Anyone making claims of anything 30 t0 100 years from now is just throwing out a WAG. All the climate models predicting doom over the past few decades have been completely wrong.

Doctors once declared peanut butter causes cancer. Experts are often wrong.

If I want advice on the future of computer science, Bill Gates is certainly on a short list. For advice on climate science he's not in the top ten thousand.

Woodrow Wilson was President of the United States, dreamed up the league of nations, and led during WW1. He was also a flaming racist.

Herbert Hoover was also President and was a highly successful businessman. He also arguably crashed the US economy.

Charles Lindberg was the first person to cross the Atlantic solo in an airplane. He also was a staunch isolationist who blamed jews for war mongering and said we should appease the Germans.

Henry Ford virtually invented the affordable automobile market and assembly line. He was also a raging anti-semite.

Lots of visionary leaders are genius in one specific area, yet believe their genius extends to all subjects. It rarely does. Bill should stick to computers.

Yep, he is.

I would even argue he isn't that good at computer science as much as he is / was good at business.

https://youtu.be/P19ywkobLX8

Thought I had linked in a previous post. Here ya go.

This will always happen. Same as other places are having lower water levels. This is why they had to change the narrative from global warming to climate change to now climate crisis. More reason for this change is the total global temperature. Even though we’re developing cleaner energy… harmful emissions are still increasing. Rapidly! Especially in China and India. If the climate crisis is man made, the global temperature should be increasing in similar form as our emissions increase. Yet, even as our harmful emissions increase significantly year after year… the global temperature rate of increase hasn’t really changed since 1910.

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/mon...l/202013#gtemp
this is the global temperature chart from NOAA.

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions
This chart shows in 1910 our output was around 3 billion tons. Compared to today it’s over 36 billion tons!! So in 110 years, our CO2 output has increased by a factor of 12! Yet, the global temperature rate of increase hasn’t changed… in 110 years!!

The ice ages went away before jet engines were here and ol billy bob was driving his gas guzzling Chevy to go pick up his sister for a date. How else did the ice ages disappear? Cow farts?

Interesting perspective. To be fair though, I'm sure you could find another self proclaimed expert who is pushing a book that will give a completely different narrative. Regardless of whether one thinks fossil fuels contribute to a warming climate or not, burning coal to heat water to produce steam to make power is dirty, out dated and inefficient. It's basically the same technology used in an old steam locomotive. Smog, carbon monoxide & sulphur dioxide pumped into the air we breathe in a town near you. I'm a fan of nuclear, as long as it's not built by the ocean next to a fault line or run by the Soviets, but they're not cheap to build.

For aviation there isn't yet a viable alternative to Jet A, but to generate electricity there are multiple options now. Many less expensive than coal and gas.

He's as right about climate as he is vaccines....

Umm. Did you even read the NOAA article and look at the chart that you posted?? Sounds like you missed some key points in there Sparky.

I see what you’re saying. Mostly about 1981 and onward… but the rate of emission increases still far outpaces temperature increases. It’s not even close. And again.. how did the ice ages disappear? The doomsdayers are acting like this is the first time global temperatures have ever increased. People have been saying the world is going to turn into a ball of fire since the 50s. I grew up in the 90s and I remember learning and hearing from the “experts” that we only have 10-20 years before the east coast is completely under water. We’re 2 decades past that and those “experts” are still 98% to 99% wrong. So color me a skeptic when none of their predictions have come true.

Poor comparison. The ice age temperature change took place over hundreds if not thousands of years. The last 8 years were the hottest on record. Also, according to wikipedia, 99% of scientists believe that the recent change in the climate is due to human activity, specifically too much Co2 being released.

If you had a tumor and 99 doctors told you it was cancer that needed to be removed but 1 wacco told you it was just a pimple that will go away on it's own, you'd go with that guy?

Y’all realize this is a thread about recessions, not climate change…right?

thank god someone finally said it!

Recessions aren't real. Just allarmists trying to scare you. Lol.

Climate change… woke talk.

how far back does average earth temperature records go back?

Late 1800’s, a lot of solid data to go on cough cough

Just another example of why I believe eco-facists are a far greater risk to our industry than any financial crisis.

Coming to your doorstep, and right soon:

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...ource=hs_email

I think you'll see an increase in sustainable fuel development and carbon offset taxes. United airlines is taking it seriously and signature flight support is already offering "sustainable aviation fuel" or SAF.

A politician can drop any soundbite they like to keep their base excited, but banning private aviation to combat pollution would be like banking credit cards to combat debt. There are more realistic and practical solutions to the problem. Thankfully we're beginning to see big companies be proactive at solving problems rather than waiting for some corrupt politicians to mandate their B S. on them.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Except that there is no problem... other than those looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

I think we've already established the fact that you're not a climate scientist. Regardless, whether you keep your head jammed up your fart pipe or not is irrelevant. Change is coming whether you like it or not. For example, California just voted to ban the sale of internal combustion engines beginning 2035. The aviation industry is evolving too, and its smart business. Avoiding carbon offset tax and pushing a "green" initiative to customers is good for profit. People who think the earth is flat won't change that.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

One doesn't have to be a climate scientist to understand that no one truly knows whether human activity is having any significant effect on the climate.


Besides, not all the scientists agree that human activity is having an effect, and even among those that do, can't agree on how or to what degree, or even come up with basic models for it. So yeah, anyone who says as a matter of fact that human activity is having a significant effect on the climate is either lying, or ignorant of the facts...

Fixed it for ya.

Good job. Now please don't tell me that Santa Claus isn't real either. That will really break my heart.

I don't know why these so called scientists waste their time making it their lifes work researching this stuff. They should just ask some pilot on APC!

99% of scientists agree with whoever is funding them.

I actually like the idea of inexpensive, renewable, and energy sources that pollutes less. I like electric cars. I like nuclear, solar, and even wind generated power. But it has to make sense, and it has to also make financial sense. We aren't there yet (except for nuclear). And doing it for unproven reasons is just idiotic.

I'm also all about conservation and limiting pollution. But radical environmentalism is simply a vehicle for socialism. That is clear as day. Carbon in and of itself is not a problem, only idiots think it is.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But, the overwhelming majority of people who are educated in the matter would disagree with you, and that doesn't by default make them idiots.

I agree with the rest of your post though, and whether carbon dioxide is a legitimate problem or not, there's increasing pressure on big businesses to reduce their CO2 emissions. Not just from the government agencies but consumers too.
Celebrities in particular would would love to portray a "green" image as they pull up to a G5 in their Prius. Even if it's just a placebo.

False.

And this, again:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

No. It’s actually pretty evenly split. Just because CNN only gives air time to the people that claim the earths warming the last million years is caused by the last 50 years of human interaction… doesn’t mean they’re the vast majority. Whoever is paying the most or has the most at stake is who you see on TV or read about in the newspapers. There is plenty of opposition.

Case in point… being vaccinated means you won’t get Covid, masks work, vaccines don’t have side effects, Covid came from a bat…. All these theories were pushed by people who have the most at stake. 72% of advertising is from pharmaceutical companies. We now know all these theories were wrong.

The best thing about climate change is that there is enough people who completely disregard the last 50 years of predictions that have all been proven wrong, so the people in charge can still milk it for who knows how long. When the people pushing “green” energy starts to act like they give a crap… then maybe I’ll get on board. Until then… seems like only us peasants are doing anything about it.

Well like I said, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. There is a worldwide movement to reduce carbon emissions and it will have an effect on private aviation. I think it has the potential to have more of an impact than any recession, which this thread was originally started for. The fact that sustainable fuel and carbon offsets exist helps mitigate the extremists, like the ones in France that Geewiz mentioned.

It would tough to argue that private aviation contributes to global warming if its "carbon neutral." Science turns into math at that point.

What are these BS references you keep posting? For every one you reference you could find at least 10 that say the opposite. Doesn't mean anything.

1- carbon offsets feed the extremists, not mitigates them.

2- If SAF works and is a better option, then it should absolutely be used, because it's the better option. Not because of a mandate or other such nonsense.

Facts and science have nothing to do with it. If it did, the entire enviro-extremist crap wouldn't even be discussed by the average person. Facts don't matter in today's discourse and policy creation. You apparently haven't figured that out yet.

Here is a list of scientists who signed a letter in 2008 calling out the enviro-extremists:

https://www.academia.edu/23481428/Wi...acts_are_clear


"We, the undersigned scientists, maintain that the case for alarm regarding climate change is grossly overstated. Surface temperature changes over the past century have been episodic and modest and there has been no net global warming for over a decade now. After controlling for population growth and property values, there has been no increase in damages from severe weather-related events. The computer models forecasting rapid temperature change abjectly fail to explain recent climate behavior."

NOVEMBER 19, 2008

“ “ PAID FOR BY THE CATO INSTITUTE, WWW.CATO.ORG 1. Swanson, K.L., and A. A. Tsonis. Geophysical Research Letters, in press: DOI:10.1029/2008GL037022. 2. Brohan, P., et al. Journal of Geophysical Research, 2006: DOI: 10.1029/2005JD006548. Updates at Temperature data (HadCRUT, CRUTEM,, HadCRUT5, CRUTEM5) Climatic Research Unit global temperature. 3. Pielke, R. A. Jr., et al. Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, 2005: DOI: 10.1175/BAMS-86-10-1481. 4. Douglass, D. H., et al. International Journal of Climatology, 2007: DOI: 10.1002/joc.1651.

Signed:

SYUN AKUSOFU, PH.D UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA ARTHUR G. ANDERSON, PH.D DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH, IBM (RETIRED) CHARLES R. ANDERSON, PH.D ANDERSON MATERIALS EVALUATION J. SCOTT ARMSTRONG, PH.D UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA ROBERT ASHWORTH CLEARSTACK LLC ISMAIL BAHT, PH.D UNIVERSITY OF KASHMIR COLIN BARTON CSIRO (RETIRED) DAVID J. BELLAMY, OBE THE BRITISH NATURAL ASSOCIATION JOHN BLAYLOCK LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY (RETIRED) EDWARD F. BLICK, PH.D UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA (EMERITUS) SONJA BOEHMER-CHRISTIANSEN, PH.D UNIVERSITY OF HULL BOB BRECK AMS BROADCASTER OF THE YEAR 2008 JOHN BRIGNELL UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHAMPTON (EMERITUS) MARK CAMPBELL, PH.D U.S. NAVAL ACADEMY ROBERT M. CARTER, PH.D JAMES COOK UNIVERSITY IAN CLARK, PH.D PROFESSOR, EARTH SCIENCES UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA, OTTAWA, CANADA ROGER COHEN, PH.D FELLOW, AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY PAUL COPPER, PH.D LAURENTIAN UNIVERSITY (EMERITUS) PIERS CORBYN, MS WEATHER ACTION RICHARD S. COURTNEY, PH.D REVIEWER, INTERGOVERNMENTAL PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE UBERTO CRESCENTI, PH.D PAST-PRESIDENT, ITALIAN GEOLOGICAL SOCIETY SUSAN CROCKFORD, PH.D UNIVERSITY OF VICTORIA JOSEPH S. D’ALEO FELLOW, AMERICAN METEOROLOGICAL SOCIETY JAMES DEMEO PH.D UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS (RETIRED) DAVID DEMING, PH.D UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA DIANE DOUGLAS, PH.D PALEOCLIMATOLOGIST DAVID DOUGLASS, PH.D UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER ROBERT H. ESSENHIGH E.G. BAILEY EMERITUS PROFESSOR OF ENERGY CONVERSION THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY CHRISTOPHER ESSEX, PH.D UNIVERSITY OF WESTERN ONTARIO

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