Recessions
 

How has NJ fared in past recessions? Are they any better or worse off than the airlines? Owners still want to fly places? Hope to get started soon but I’d be crazy to not hear from those who have been there how things have gone in the past. Thanks!

Historically, the Uber rich get richer. Those who buy minimum time like 25 jet cards to look cool to their friends drop out, but we’ve learned not to put all our eggs in one basket. If anything, sales will slow, but today that won’t hurt us. We are having a hard time meeting demand as it is.

Is it difficult to meet demand due to pilot staffing? I thought I saw someone else post hiring statistics in the other thread saying only like 9% of applicants got hired? It’s good to hear though that recessions don’t disrupt NetJets too much though.

A whole lot has changed in how the company structures owner contracts since 2009. We also didn't have a thousands-deep waitlist then either.

This wasn't the result of any "ordinary" recession. The economic collapse in 2008 was massive. We hadn't seen anything even close to it since the great depression. But that wasn't the only factor. The whole Bernie Madoff thing happened at the same time. We lost many aircraft worth of clients because of him.

But probably the biggest factor leading up to the furloughs was Kenny Dichter. Netjets purchased dozens of aircraft just to service the Marquis crowd. When Dichter left us holding the bag on that one we ended up with dozens of unencumbered aircraft.

Combine all that and yeah, Netjets furloughed. It didn't help that RTS had committed to purchasing a lot of Hawker 400XP's which we had no clients for.

As was said, Netjets is structured very differently now.. I certainly wouldn't use the word "never" in regards to future furloughs. Who can predict just how bad things can get from time to time? Life never ceases to surprise me. But when it comes to recessions that are more typical to the economic cycle I'd say there's very little for our pilots to worry about.

They also had a Volunteer Leave of Absense at that time to try to mitigate a furlough. A one year deal and a three year deal. The 1 year came with 1/3 of your pay plus health care and the 3 year was $1000/month plus health care. I think both terms were furlough proof? Meaning, if you took one of the deals and your number came up to furlough, you kept the deal. Can't remember a lot of the details so might not be 100% accurate. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, please.

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Only 3 year continued paying out if furloughed. I believe there were only 25 or so pilots that took the 3 year deal. It also paid the 401k matching since it was considered “salary”. What great deal, 80% of salary could go to 401k with 50% matching.

Regarding the “massive” recession of 2008…

Biden says… “Hold my beer”.

That being said, a furlough only happens when a requisite number of pins catch as the key turns the tumbler.

It’s not hard to get 121 puking massive numbers. NetJets is much harder.

Fixed it for ya.

This is a far bigger threat to our industry than a recession:

https://www.breitbart.com/entertainm...te-jet-flight/

And not just the deranged climate alarmism of the wokesters but the tone deaf excesses of the celeb crowd drawing negative scrutiny to private aviation.

I completely agree with you. As other world orders have taken precedent, this is somewhat been forgotten about. However, I believe it will manifest again with a vengeance. However, it may affect corporations first before us as we can somewhat hide owners. However, when it does happen, I don't see the huge growth our company is planning for. Add the airlines pressuring the government and politicians for a sound bite, we are in for a rude awakening in a few years.

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Political pressures do rear their ugly head every so often, however, a company can signal a lot of virtues by closing their visible flight departments. (..........then quietly getting a share with a fractional.........)

A Breitbart article quoting a bunch of social media zombies??? Yeah, I think I’ll pass on the alarmist reference.

CO2 emissions are something the ENTIRE aviation industry will need to deal with eventually, but so is just about every other transportation sector.

HAHAHA! Let them prattle about as Kerry flies around in Ketchup 1 to “save the environment” and Biden uses AirForce 1 to beg for oil from Saudi we already have. Hippocrates.

Private jet travel remains the best, most efficient way to get from A to F with no letters between.

Woke jokes everywhere these days but even AOC would use a jet if she could afford it.. Only cause people want to date her. 😂😂

At the end of the day, energy is about control of the masses. Control is power. Nothing more.

To add to the story...when Dave Solol came in to help patch the sucking chest wound he wanted to dispose of all small cabin planes (Encores, Excels, 400s) and release the pilots. This would have been a huge help. Due to having a pilot union and seniority list many senior pilots kept their job and of course the casualities were from the bottom up. One pilot was hired in the 1980's and was number seven on the overall list. He would have lost his job if no union and seniority list.
Sokol had no clue how an aviation company list operates and thought he'd strong arm the pilot group as he did non-pilot employees.
Sokol's reign of terror ended in August, 2009.

Y'all do realize the ones complaining about private jets are the ones flying private jets, right? The climate scam, just like the covid scam is going to be directed at the poor and middle class. Go eat your grasshoppers before Klaus gets mad now.

What a moronic post.

I doubt the 1 million people in this country who died of covid thought it was a scam while they were gasping for their final breaths, or the people in northern England last week who were roasting at 106 f with no air conditioning.

Don't let facts get in the way of your narrow brainwashed little mind now!

Of course zombies are real though and they all have covid because they refuse to wear a mask. I bet that's who they died in the first place. May be they'll die of it twice!

No, not really, because there is nothing wrong with carbon dioxide emissions. Don't cave to the climate change cult.

Really? It's amazing that so many pilots are also scientists. Why don't you try sitting in your garage with the door closed and the engine running to prove how harmless those emissions are?

I could just sit next to a volcano as it's erupting.

That's a fair argument, but whether you believe in human induced climate change or not, most governments are under pressure to reduce carbon emissions and aviation is an easy target. Seems kind of silly to me since there isn't really any viable alternatives, unlike coal replaced with wind, solar, hydro electric and / or nuclear.

First of all, that's carbon MONoxide. Carbon DIOxide feeds all living vegetation on earth. Second I find it awfully hypocritical of pilots who burn thousands of tons of fossil fuels every year to make their living to preach this. Which is it John Kerry, jets good or bad? sounds like the classic rules for thee but not for me mentality.

Who's preaching anything? I could work for Philip Morris and still say that smoking cigarettes is bad for you. Doesn't make anyone a hypocrite. I couldn't care less if John Kerry flies an A380 or gets around on a pogo stick.

Or we could just grow a spine and tell the climate change alarmist cult to go pound sand?

So because pilots fly jets that produce CO2 emissions, we all just need to bury our heads in the sand and pretend greenhouse gases aren’t a problem?? That’s genius!!
You should go walk outside so all the trees and plants can thank you for your contributions.

"Greenhouse gasses" aren't a problem.

Do you mind providing your credentials to make such a statement? Parroting what you saw on OAN doesn't count.

Will you open your mind long enough to watch a Prager U vid featuring an OBAMA Administration pooh bah?

Climate changing? Yes. Overblown? Absolutely.

Climate is dynamic, always has been. What causes it? Many factors, some more than others. Are humans having an effect? Dunno, doesn't seem like it, unlikely but not impossible. Do we understand it enough to base policy on or even have reliable models? Nope, absolutely not.

Excellent response!

Carry on.

Remember the hole in the ozone layer back in the 80's? Yeah, it was actually Margret Thatcher, then Prime Minister of the U.K. who was a former research chemist that persuaded then President Ronald Reagan that the people who were saying that its "overblown" were living in denial, and if we didn't take immediate action mankind is in a world of deep shiznit! Long story short, after the typical BS political "experts" chiming in, they teamed up with 3M to replace CFCs in aerosol cans, air conditioners, refrigerators etc. with a gas that is significantly less harmful.
Here we are again. History repeating, and no I won't listen to an Obama opinion piece. He was a constitutional law professor. If I need medical advice I'll ask a doctor, weather a meteorologist etc. Certainly not a politically motivated opinion pusher and definitely not a fellow pilot!

Carbon dioxide levels are high due to excessive burning of fossil fuels and its having a detrimental effect on the climate. That's not an opinion or a political talking point, it's just a fact. Just like the ozone layer there will be nay sayers and politicians who flow with the tide of their constituents to secure re-election, but eventually the adults in the room will come together and figure out an acceptable solution. That's my hope at least.

So that would be a no. You're unwilling to open your mind long enough to watch a five minute video of a former Obama administration environmental expert explain in clear, calm, and concise language what the data actually shows. This is not a right-wing, Exxon paid talking head. This is a member of the second most leftward administration in US history debunking the notion that we're in the midst of a climate "EMERGENCY!"

Yep, you're real interested in science FACT.

I don't remember anyone declaring an "emergency" but whatever. It's just one man's opinion anyway. Politicians are corrupt and say anything to fundraise or get re-elected. I'm just not interested in hearing it. I'm sure there are chicken littles out there along with those that bury there heads in the sand. As usual, somewhere in the middle is where the truth really lies.

Actually, the history of climate "emergencies" used as scare tactics to try and influence people's behavior goes all the way back to the ice age warnings of the mid seventies. The truth is, there is ice core evidence of much warmer temperatures many years ago and ice ages. The climate is always changing and it's variations have to do with orbit wobbles, Sun activity, and possibly, to a very small degree, human activity. Can we destroy the planet? Probably not, short of detonation of all the nuclear devices on the planet at once.

I always smile at reports of millions dying in the coming decades as the sea levels rise and take them out. No, millions will relocate, but not die. As climates change people adapt. Been happening since the beginning and it will continue. Meanwhile alarmists push us into electric vehicles which will increase the cost of electricity (fast charging rates have already doubled in CA), and push our already weak grid past its limits. Battery mining and coal fired power plants belch pollution for those "zero emissions" vehicles, and nuclear, which is clean and safe seems to be off limits to the green crowd too.

So yes, we're sick of the dire predictions that never come true. We've had it with the attitude that because your intentions are good, your bad solutions must be followed. The best solutions, the ones that actually work, will win out in the market. Products that improve lives and are efficient and clean don't have to be forced on people.

You don't remember anyone calling it "an emergency"? How about the just published LA Times editorial demanding that POTUS declare a CLIMATE EMERGENCY and invoke Executive Orders to "curb carbon emissions"?

The person in the video isn't a politician and he isn't fundraising. He's a policy wonk who actually read the studies and the data and points out the pitfalls of climate alarmism. It really is worth five minutes of your time. Or will the time you spend typing a retort be a better use of those five minutes?

Well said.

QUOTE. Lefties really do just appeal to emotion rather than logic and reason. Your entire job could be legislated out of existence and you would still cry about "Faux news" and clap like a seal when colbert comes on and tells his canned jokes.[/QUOTE]

So anyone that is concerned about the climate is automatically a"leftie"? Wasn't it Richard Nixon who signed the clean air act into law? Clapping like a seal? WTF are you talking about? Possible side effect of taking ivermectin I'm guessing!

You're right. I'll watch it.