NetJets Tentative Agreement - thoughts?
Here's the official TA - https://s3.amazonaws.com/njasap-soli...89/TA24_RG.pdf
What's your vote? What are your thoughts? |
Some of the graphs are very skewed and misleading...
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Easy enough. NO!
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As an outsider looking at applying to NetJets in the next year or two, could someone talk about why the pilot group seems to be so against this TA without going on a complete tangent on the union? Yes, I understand that the pilot group is looking for a lot more here to be fairly compensated with respect to their 121 counterparts and that the union hasn't been doing a very good job of that. But with a 23% increase in pay and other compensatory increases, especially when the current contract isn't up until 2029 and this TA isn't even required, why vote against it? It seems like the raise isn't big enough to stop people from leaving so the argument that 'if we vote no they will have to come back with a better one' doesn't make sense if you don't think this will solve the issues anyways. Forgive my ignorance, I'm new and just trying to learn.
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Originally Posted by Thrash5
(Post 3775427)
As an outsider looking at applying to NetJets in the next year or two, could someone talk about why the pilot group seems to be so against this TA without going on a complete tangent on the union? Yes, I understand that the pilot group is looking for a lot more here to be fairly compensated with respect to their 121 counterparts and that the union hasn't been doing a very good job of that. But with a 23% increase in pay and other compensatory increases, especially when the current contract isn't up until 2029 and this TA isn't even required, why vote against it? It seems like the raise isn't big enough to stop people from leaving so the argument that 'if we vote no they will have to come back with a better one' doesn't make sense if you don't think this will solve the issues anyways. Forgive my ignorance, I'm new and just trying to learn.
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Originally Posted by Thrash5
(Post 3775427)
As an outsider looking at applying to NetJets in the next year or two, could someone talk about why the pilot group seems to be so against this TA without going on a complete tangent on the union? Yes, I understand that the pilot group is looking for a lot more here to be fairly compensated with respect to their 121 counterparts and that the union hasn't been doing a very good job of that. But with a 23% increase in pay and other compensatory increases, especially when the current contract isn't up until 2029 and this TA isn't even required, why vote against it? It seems like the raise isn't big enough to stop people from leaving so the argument that 'if we vote no they will have to come back with a better one' doesn't make sense if you don't think this will solve the issues anyways. Forgive my ignorance, I'm new and just trying to learn.
It's a good TA. It may not be anybody's wish list, but TA's rarely are. It's understandable after seeing what happened at the majors that expectations would be super high, but we haven't seen that story play all the way out yet, and NetJets is not a major airline. |
Still don't care...
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Originally Posted by Career SIC
(Post 3775508)
Because NetJets pilot expectations are out of line with reality. They thought the company was going to hand them airline pay and working conditions because they "deserve it" and are "worth it" and they "work hard," none of which have anything to do with real world bargaining. Now those same people think they can just vote no and that will "send a message," and that will get it done. It won't. That will only ensure they are much poorer going forward while they wait for the company to come back to the table and recognize how deserving they are.
It's a good TA. It may not be anybody's wish list, but TA's rarely are. It's understandable after seeing what happened at the majors that expectations would be super high, but we haven't seen that story play all the way out yet, and NetJets is not a major airline. This graph is a perfect illustration of what the union does to try and sell a bucket of crap to the pilot group. They use NJA 14-year CA pay to compare to some random and grossly incorrect airline rates to skew it to make it look like they are in line with the airlines. The sad part is, so many NJA pilots are agnostic to the industry and what is going on, that they will believe it. https://freeimage.host/i/JM0tlbphttps://iili.io/JM0tlbp.md.pnghttps://freeimage.host/i/JM0tlbp]https://iili.io/JM0tlbp.md.png[/url[/url]] image]https://freeimage.host/]image upload[/url] |
Originally Posted by Thrash5
(Post 3775427)
As an outsider looking at applying to NetJets in the next year or two, could someone talk about why the pilot group seems to be so against this TA without going on a complete tangent on the union? Yes, I understand that the pilot group is looking for a lot more here to be fairly compensated with respect to their 121 counterparts and that the union hasn't been doing a very good job of that. But with a 23% increase in pay and other compensatory increases, especially when the current contract isn't up until 2029 and this TA isn't even required, why vote against it? It seems like the raise isn't big enough to stop people from leaving so the argument that 'if we vote no they will have to come back with a better one' doesn't make sense if you don't think this will solve the issues anyways. Forgive my ignorance, I'm new and just trying to learn.
In the last 10-years, NJASAP union dues have gone to destroy the ability for the pilot group to bargain collectively. In the last 10-years, NJASAP union dues have gone to promote marketing so the union leadership becomes increasingly untouchable. It's not a 23% increase. There is no retro pay/bonus, future profit sharing (?). The document provided and graphs are extremely manipulative, but this is the story with NJASAP for the last 10-years or more. It is the best environment for pilots, and NJA pilots can't use any leverage. They have been voluntarily castrated. NJA was a comparable job to majors/LCCs...now something that in some aspects is worse than a FAR 121 regional. The pilot group refuses to do the work to make things better and clean up their union, so the good people leave...and the decline continues unabated. How disgustingly toxic. The pilots wear their lanyards, talk smack, picket, and the union in the background destroys the membership. So, why vote against it? Because you are a professional pilot, that's why...otherwise...it's more than a decade of suckers getting taken to the cleaners. You want to learn? Compare the behavior of the Delta, United, FedEx, SWA pilot groups vs. NJA. The document prepared by NJASAP (linked above), would never be published by a ALPA MEC. Ever. And if ALPA ever tried it, the union leadership would be removed faster than you could say "Pedro". The pilots have NJA have showed their true colors the last 10 years. Please AJ, can I have another? Pedro will help you hit me harder. It's like watching an anxious Chihuahua stand it's ground. NJA should be the best job in the industry...but damn, a lot of bad apples...and the apples have been rotting for a long time now. |
Originally Posted by AntiPeter
(Post 3775577)
The pilot group is probably not against the TA, it will likely pass (says me).
In the last 10-years, NJASAP union dues have gone to destroy the ability for the pilot group to bargain collectively. In the last 10-years, NJASAP union dues have gone to promote marketing so the union leadership becomes increasingly untouchable. It's not a 23% increase. There is no retro pay/bonus, future profit sharing (?). The document provided and graphs are extremely manipulative, but this is the story with NJASAP for the last 10-years or more. It is the best environment for pilots, and NJA pilots can't use any leverage. They have been voluntarily castrated. NJA was a comparable job to majors/LCCs...now something that in some aspects is worse than a FAR 121 regional. The pilot group refuses to do the work to make things better and clean up their union, so the good people leave...and the decline continues unabated. How disgustingly toxic. The pilots wear their lanyards, talk smack, picket, and the union in the background destroys the membership. So, why vote against it? Because you are a professional pilot, that's why...otherwise...it's more than a decade of suckers getting taken to the cleaners. You want to learn? Compare the behavior of the Delta, United, FedEx, SWA pilot groups vs. NJA. The document prepared by NJASAP (linked above), would never be published by a ALPA MEC. Ever. And if ALPA ever tried it, the union leadership would be removed faster than you could say "Pedro". The pilots have NJA have showed their true colors the last 10 years. Please AJ, can I have another? Pedro will help you hit me harder. It's like watching an anxious Chihuahua stand it's ground. NJA should be the best job in the industry...but damn, a lot of bad apples...and the apples have been rotting for a long time now. |
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