Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Fractional > NetJets
NetJets Tentative Agreement - thoughts? >

NetJets Tentative Agreement - thoughts?

Notices
NetJets Fractional Operator

NetJets Tentative Agreement - thoughts?

Old 02-29-2024, 08:17 AM
  #1  
New Hire
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jun 2023
Posts: 8
Post NetJets Tentative Agreement - thoughts?

Here's the official TA - https://s3.amazonaws.com/njasap-soli...89/TA24_RG.pdf

What's your vote? What are your thoughts?
leomcgarry is offline  
Old 02-29-2024, 02:14 PM
  #2  
Mmmm wine
 
MinRest's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: A220 FO
Posts: 963
Default

Some of the graphs are very skewed and misleading...
MinRest is offline  
Old 02-29-2024, 02:28 PM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 172
Default

Easy enough. NO!
Pervis is offline  
Old 02-29-2024, 04:05 PM
  #4  
Piston driver
 
Joined APC: Aug 2023
Posts: 4
Default

As an outsider looking at applying to NetJets in the next year or two, could someone talk about why the pilot group seems to be so against this TA without going on a complete tangent on the union? Yes, I understand that the pilot group is looking for a lot more here to be fairly compensated with respect to their 121 counterparts and that the union hasn't been doing a very good job of that. But with a 23% increase in pay and other compensatory increases, especially when the current contract isn't up until 2029 and this TA isn't even required, why vote against it? It seems like the raise isn't big enough to stop people from leaving so the argument that 'if we vote no they will have to come back with a better one' doesn't make sense if you don't think this will solve the issues anyways. Forgive my ignorance, I'm new and just trying to learn.
Thrash5 is offline  
Old 02-29-2024, 06:15 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
TeamSasquatch's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 509
Default

Originally Posted by Thrash5 View Post
As an outsider looking at applying to NetJets in the next year or two, could someone talk about why the pilot group seems to be so against this TA without going on a complete tangent on the union? Yes, I understand that the pilot group is looking for a lot more here to be fairly compensated with respect to their 121 counterparts and that the union hasn't been doing a very good job of that. But with a 23% increase in pay and other compensatory increases, especially when the current contract isn't up until 2029 and this TA isn't even required, why vote against it? It seems like the raise isn't big enough to stop people from leaving so the argument that 'if we vote no they will have to come back with a better one' doesn't make sense if you don't think this will solve the issues anyways. Forgive my ignorance, I'm new and just trying to learn.
point of clarification: NetJets pilots are the union. One in the same. But yes, the union (pilots) didn’t make enough noise to get a better agreement. Better turnout at pickets, more unity, that sort of stuff.
TeamSasquatch is offline  
Old 02-29-2024, 08:33 PM
  #6  
New Hire
 
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 7
Default

Originally Posted by Thrash5 View Post
As an outsider looking at applying to NetJets in the next year or two, could someone talk about why the pilot group seems to be so against this TA without going on a complete tangent on the union? Yes, I understand that the pilot group is looking for a lot more here to be fairly compensated with respect to their 121 counterparts and that the union hasn't been doing a very good job of that. But with a 23% increase in pay and other compensatory increases, especially when the current contract isn't up until 2029 and this TA isn't even required, why vote against it? It seems like the raise isn't big enough to stop people from leaving so the argument that 'if we vote no they will have to come back with a better one' doesn't make sense if you don't think this will solve the issues anyways. Forgive my ignorance, I'm new and just trying to learn.
Because NetJets pilot expectations are out of line with reality. They thought the company was going to hand them airline pay and working conditions because they "deserve it" and are "worth it" and they "work hard," none of which have anything to do with real world bargaining. Now those same people think they can just vote no and that will "send a message," and that will get it done. It won't. That will only ensure they are much poorer going forward while they wait for the company to come back to the table and recognize how deserving they are.

It's a good TA. It may not be anybody's wish list, but TA's rarely are. It's understandable after seeing what happened at the majors that expectations would be super high, but we haven't seen that story play all the way out yet, and NetJets is not a major airline.
Career SIC is offline  
Old 02-29-2024, 09:44 PM
  #7  
Speed, Power, Accuracy
 
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,705
Default

Still don't care...
GeeWizDriver is offline  
Old 03-01-2024, 04:48 AM
  #8  
Mmmm wine
 
MinRest's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: A220 FO
Posts: 963
Default

Originally Posted by Career SIC View Post
Because NetJets pilot expectations are out of line with reality. They thought the company was going to hand them airline pay and working conditions because they "deserve it" and are "worth it" and they "work hard," none of which have anything to do with real world bargaining. Now those same people think they can just vote no and that will "send a message," and that will get it done. It won't. That will only ensure they are much poorer going forward while they wait for the company to come back to the table and recognize how deserving they are.

It's a good TA. It may not be anybody's wish list, but TA's rarely are. It's understandable after seeing what happened at the majors that expectations would be super high, but we haven't seen that story play all the way out yet, and NetJets is not a major airline.
You have the NJA pilot group pretty nailed. There is no leverage and there is no legal requirement to provide a CBA so if the pilots vote no, it doesn't send any message that moves the needle for management. Especially with airlines slowing down hiring in 2024. Simply wanting it isn't enough, for years and years the group says they deserve it, yet time and time again the results fall far short of expectation and yet there is this undying and unwavering blind support for the unions efforts. All the pilots will say that it is a no vote, and it will pass with a mid 70's yes vote.

This graph is a perfect illustration of what the union does to try and sell a bucket of crap to the pilot group. They use NJA 14-year CA pay to compare to some random and grossly incorrect airline rates to skew it to make it look like they are in line with the airlines. The sad part is, so many NJA pilots are agnostic to the industry and what is going on, that they will believe it.

https://freeimage.host/i/JM0tlbp][/url[/url]]
image]https://freeimage.host/]image upload[/url]
MinRest is offline  
Old 03-01-2024, 05:43 AM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 517
Default

Originally Posted by Thrash5 View Post
As an outsider looking at applying to NetJets in the next year or two, could someone talk about why the pilot group seems to be so against this TA without going on a complete tangent on the union? Yes, I understand that the pilot group is looking for a lot more here to be fairly compensated with respect to their 121 counterparts and that the union hasn't been doing a very good job of that. But with a 23% increase in pay and other compensatory increases, especially when the current contract isn't up until 2029 and this TA isn't even required, why vote against it? It seems like the raise isn't big enough to stop people from leaving so the argument that 'if we vote no they will have to come back with a better one' doesn't make sense if you don't think this will solve the issues anyways. Forgive my ignorance, I'm new and just trying to learn.
The pilot group is probably not against the TA, it will likely pass (says me).

In the last 10-years, NJASAP union dues have gone to destroy the ability for the pilot group to bargain collectively. In the last 10-years, NJASAP union dues have gone to promote marketing so the union leadership becomes increasingly untouchable.

It's not a 23% increase. There is no retro pay/bonus, future profit sharing (?). The document provided and graphs are extremely manipulative, but this is the story with NJASAP for the last 10-years or more. It is the best environment for pilots, and NJA pilots can't use any leverage. They have been voluntarily castrated.

NJA was a comparable job to majors/LCCs...now something that in some aspects is worse than a FAR 121 regional.

The pilot group refuses to do the work to make things better and clean up their union, so the good people leave...and the decline continues unabated.

How disgustingly toxic. The pilots wear their lanyards, talk smack, picket, and the union in the background destroys the membership.

So, why vote against it? Because you are a professional pilot, that's why...otherwise...it's more than a decade of suckers getting taken to the cleaners.

You want to learn? Compare the behavior of the Delta, United, FedEx, SWA pilot groups vs. NJA.

The document prepared by NJASAP (linked above), would never be published by a ALPA MEC. Ever. And if ALPA ever tried it, the union leadership would be removed faster than you could say "Pedro".

The pilots have NJA have showed their true colors the last 10 years. Please AJ, can I have another? Pedro will help you hit me harder. It's like watching an anxious Chihuahua stand it's ground.

NJA should be the best job in the industry...but damn, a lot of bad apples...and the apples have been rotting for a long time now.

Last edited by AntiPeter; 03-01-2024 at 06:10 AM.
AntiPeter is offline  
Old 03-02-2024, 05:09 AM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,034
Default

Originally Posted by AntiPeter View Post
The pilot group is probably not against the TA, it will likely pass (says me).

In the last 10-years, NJASAP union dues have gone to destroy the ability for the pilot group to bargain collectively. In the last 10-years, NJASAP union dues have gone to promote marketing so the union leadership becomes increasingly untouchable.

It's not a 23% increase. There is no retro pay/bonus, future profit sharing (?). The document provided and graphs are extremely manipulative, but this is the story with NJASAP for the last 10-years or more. It is the best environment for pilots, and NJA pilots can't use any leverage. They have been voluntarily castrated.

NJA was a comparable job to majors/LCCs...now something that in some aspects is worse than a FAR 121 regional.

The pilot group refuses to do the work to make things better and clean up their union, so the good people leave...and the decline continues unabated.

How disgustingly toxic. The pilots wear their lanyards, talk smack, picket, and the union in the background destroys the membership.

So, why vote against it? Because you are a professional pilot, that's why...otherwise...it's more than a decade of suckers getting taken to the cleaners.

You want to learn? Compare the behavior of the Delta, United, FedEx, SWA pilot groups vs. NJA.

The document prepared by NJASAP (linked above), would never be published by a ALPA MEC. Ever. And if ALPA ever tried it, the union leadership would be removed faster than you could say "Pedro".

The pilots have NJA have showed their true colors the last 10 years. Please AJ, can I have another? Pedro will help you hit me harder. It's like watching an anxious Chihuahua stand it's ground.

NJA should be the best job in the industry...but damn, a lot of bad apples...and the apples have been rotting for a long time now.
I think the union leadership could have done a better job- too many pickets, jumping the gun with the first billboard, embarrassing videos, and letting the group splinter between newer and longer time members before making an effort to unite the group. That said, if we need new leadership, someone needs to put their hat in the ring soon and provide a solid case as to how they will do better. The one who has claimed they will run refuses to answer questions on how he would do it better and that is the last thing we need in a leader. I don't believe the current group is just in their positions because they love the power. They work way harder than the regular pilots and put in crazy hours. They would all make much more simply working the same amount of days on the line without all the headaches of running the union. I'm not opposed to a change, but it will need to be individuals or a group that has a convincing case. So far, even former leaders who may throw their hat in the ring have said nothing more than stop letting the group splinter. We will need much more than that to make a change. I would love to hear some actual fresh ideas and raise up a better union, but while everyone loves to critique, I am not seeing anyone better with these real ideas coming through to challenge.
jtf560 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
blackbox348
Regional
29
06-26-2019 11:29 PM
PasserOGas
JetBlue
196
07-03-2018 05:17 PM
Cruise
Spirit
10507
12-01-2016 12:52 PM
jetlag7
NetJets
13
11-08-2010 04:11 PM
captain_drew
Cargo
3
06-01-2005 12:55 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices