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NetJets Tentative Agreement - thoughts?

Old 03-12-2024, 10:19 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by StoneQOLdCrazy
stating that the proposed compensation will be within 4.6% of 121 pay in 2029 makes the unreasonable assumption that 121 properties will not have their own pay raise by then.
It won't be anywhere close to 4.6% pay in 2029. The comparison charts in NJASAPs own teaser documents in the TA are grossly misleading and incorrect lol.
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Old 03-12-2024, 02:38 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by MinRest
It won't be anywhere close to 4.6% pay in 2029. The comparison charts in NJASAPs own teaser documents in the TA are grossly misleading and incorrect lol.
I agree those charts are misleading. I don't know how to really compare apples to apples between 121 and NetJets since the pay schemes are so different. When you add up average FDP, holiday pay, OT, and longevity bonuses, you are looking at close to 100K for many captains, but nothing is guaranteed and impossible to say they will hold. I also believe the charts are showing min guarantee for the airlines and don't factor in any likely premium pay and there is no way they are showing the massive difference when you include company match vs DC. All I can say for sure is that netjets pilots will make more than they do now.
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Old 03-12-2024, 04:58 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by jtf560
I agree those charts are misleading. I don't know how to really compare apples to apples between 121 and NetJets since the pay schemes are so different. When you add up average FDP, holiday pay, OT, and longevity bonuses, you are looking at close to 100K for many captains, but nothing is guaranteed and impossible to say they will hold. I also believe the charts are showing min guarantee for the airlines and don't factor in any likely premium pay and there is no way they are showing the massive difference when you include company match vs DC. All I can say for sure is that netjets pilots will make more than they do now.
They also show a 16 year NJA CA as the comparison to basically airline new hire CA rates lol.
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Old 03-12-2024, 05:58 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by MinRest
They also show a 16 year NJA CA as the comparison to basically airline new hire CA rates lol.
If it is showing 16 years, it is really messed up because they compacted the large cabin and category 5 scales to 14 years to make 14 years the top across the board. I do recall seeing the rates for 8&6 as higher than 72 in a few places as another total mistake in the charts. I can't blame the leadership for putting lipstick on the pig, but they could have at least proofread the package.
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Old 03-16-2024, 03:56 AM
  #25  
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Corporate guy here just window shopping.....I've skimmed through the TA, but wondering if someone could shed some real world numbers. If this passes what would the average FO make working the 7/7 after adding FDP, etc.? What are upgrade times these days?

I'm currently makng $180k. Trying to figure out how long it would take to break even if i made the jump sticking to the 7/7. Mainly interested in netjets for the basing options, insurance, and set schedule.
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Old 03-16-2024, 11:46 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Bulldog08
Corporate guy here just window shopping.....I've skimmed through the TA, but wondering if someone could shed some real world numbers. If this passes what would the average FO make working the 7/7 after adding FDP, etc.? What are upgrade times these days?

I'm currently makng $180k. Trying to figure out how long it would take to break even if i made the jump sticking to the 7/7. Mainly interested in netjets for the basing options, insurance, and set schedule.
You will likely make at least 150K your first year on the new contract if it passes and of you drop down to the 7&7 as soon as you can, unless you get stuck on the XLS or Sovereign or unless you get stuck waiting 6 months for IOE. As far as how long to get to 180K on the 7&7, probably your 3rd or 4th year as an SIC or maybe by year your 3rd year if upgrades continue as they currently are. The money doesn't go up as quickly as at the airlines with the pay scales here.
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Old 03-16-2024, 06:17 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Bulldog08
Corporate guy here just window shopping.....I've skimmed through the TA, but wondering if someone could shed some real world numbers. If this passes what would the average FO make working the 7/7 after adding FDP, etc.? What are upgrade times these days?

I'm currently makng $180k. Trying to figure out how long it would take to break even if i made the jump sticking to the 7/7. Mainly interested in netjets for the basing options, insurance, and set schedule.
Too many variables there to give you any numbers. Biggest variable being the fleet that you are assigned to, you have zero control over that. It is not senority based or even ss# based, it is random. Thus, you might get stuck in an older fleet (680 or XL), hell i'm hearing that even the 350 new hires aren't flying as much as they used to. then you have the long wait times for ioe, some waiting for as long as 6 months. thus all these combined it is hard to get you a number. however, you won't be making 180k on a 7n7 schedule as an FO until maybe year 3, and thats with the potentially new contract pay rates. as they say YMMV

my advice would be stay where you are at and upgrade there to get a higher salary
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Old 03-17-2024, 04:40 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by jtf560
You will likely make at least 150K your first year on the new contract if it passes and of you drop down to the 7&7 as soon as you can, unless you get stuck on the XLS or Sovereign or unless you get stuck waiting 6 months for IOE. As far as how long to get to 180K on the 7&7, probably your 3rd or 4th year as an SIC or maybe by year your 3rd year if upgrades continue as they currently are. The money doesn't go up as quickly as at the airlines with the pay scales here.
Those numbers are complete BS.

You make your base pay. EVERYTHING else is fluff money and there is ZERO way to forecast it. (Except holidays if you are on the 8/6 or 7/7 schedule and they are known in advance).

However, if you take a 121 MIN GUARANTEE and compare it to the 7/7, using delta numbers you come up with a difference of about $27,000 in favor of Delta. Then subtract Delta's health insurance prices (since yours is "free") and you get a difference of about $2500 in favor of Delta.

Those comparisons are MIN GUARANTEE compared to our 7/7.......nothing more.

It's impossible to compute FDP. People will give you estimates and what they did last year but if you want something to hang your hat on, just use the base pay numbers.

Good Luck.... (these numbers are using the new TA numbers)
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Old 03-17-2024, 05:34 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by UTR69
Those numbers are complete BS.

You make your base pay. EVERYTHING else is fluff money and there is ZERO way to forecast it. (Except holidays if you are on the 8/6 or 7/7 schedule and they are known in advance).

However, if you take a 121 MIN GUARANTEE and compare it to the 7/7, using delta numbers you come up with a difference of about $27,000 in favor of Delta. Then subtract Delta's health insurance prices (since yours is "free") and you get a difference of about $2500 in favor of Delta.

Those comparisons are MIN GUARANTEE compared to our 7/7.......nothing more.

It's impossible to compute FDP. People will give you estimates and what they did last year but if you want something to hang your hat on, just use the base pay numbers.

Good Luck.... (these numbers are using the new TA numbers)
I used the word "likely" and gave some qualifiers like getting stuck on the XLS or sovereign and getting stuck taking forever to get to IOE. Those numbers are not "BS". The poster had a question so I gave him likely numbers because they are likely. Likely is not guaranteed. Using base pay numbers has never been anywhere near the likely outcome here. Even before FDP, the average pilot was likely to make 10% or more in soft money. The numbers I gave were not the company's pie in the sky that they conveniently don't mention they base on the 72 day schedule, 10+ extended days, and miraculous investment returns on their 401K. Short of a major recession or other giant economic event, almost nobody at the airlines makes min guarantee and nobody makes only the base pay at NetJets. Basically everyone made at least some FDP, OT, and holiday pay in 2020 and 2021 prior to revenge travel that summer. I fully admit it is impossible to know any future numbers for sure, but it is possible to forecast a likely relatively short-term outcome for the majority of pilots hired in the near future.
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Old 03-17-2024, 07:03 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by UTR69
Those numbers are complete BS.

You make your base pay. EVERYTHING else is fluff money and there is ZERO way to forecast it. (Except holidays if you are on the 8/6 or 7/7 schedule and they are known in advance).

However, if you take a 121 MIN GUARANTEE and compare it to the 7/7, using delta numbers you come up with a difference of about $27,000 in favor of Delta. Then subtract Delta's health insurance prices (since yours is "free") and you get a difference of about $2500 in favor of Delta.

Those comparisons are MIN GUARANTEE compared to our 7/7.......nothing more.

It's impossible to compute FDP. People will give you estimates and what they did last year but if you want something to hang your hat on, just use the base pay numbers.

Good Luck.... (these numbers are using the new TA numbers)
They use year 14 PIC rates at NJA and compare them to undisclosed YOS mainline rates at min guarantee. Literally top of the scale PIC rates at NJA compared to airline rates they don't want to add context to, because if they did, it would be laughable. First of all, this chart was created this year because it is an IBI24 resource guide, and they include data from 2022 which is 100% irrelevant. Then they take random airline numbers out of thin air to compare them to the highest pay rate NJA PICs on the 7&7. For 2024 the airline rate they use is 310 an hour. A year one narrowbody PIC at American makes 331 an hour right now. The rates used for DAL, UAL and AAL are old and incorrect. I am racking my brain trying to figure out whether NJASAP is just simply ignorant of the industry or if this is them willfully misleading the pilot group. Hell, I make 10 dollars less right now as a year 8 narrowbody PIC, than the TOP of the airline scale for 2029 that NJASAP used.

It couldn't be more factually inaccurate if they tried...
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