New hire on 650
 

I know recently 650 was awarded during Indoc. What is some pros/cons of going straight large cabin that I might not see? Thank you in advance.

I will answer on the training/risk side of things. Operationally and financially, I will let someone else speak to it.

I will start my response with my usual comment, remember Netjets has total control over new hire assignments. Yes they have you fill out a wish list during indoc, but it is not a seniority based bid. I keep hearing from new hires complaints that they didn't get what they "bid" for or feel slighted that someone else got something that they thought they should. Be prepared to accept any fleet if you come to Netjets.

That being said, yes the 650 has gone to new hires and will likely again. We may even see the Global go to new hires soon. As a new hire (this applies to all fleets), you only have 2 failures until the company has the contractual right to drop you from training. This is not just FAA checkride failures, but also includes failure to be recommended for checkride. So if you do not get recommended for your checkride (failure 1) and then slip up on your checkride (failure 2), Netjets can let you go. There have been multiple instances recently of this happening for pilots who bid to the large cabins. Once you have completed your first year and are off probation, you are afforded additional protections that make it less risky to switch fleets.

I do not know if we are seeing a higher failure rate for low time pilots going into the 650. Anecdotally, it does seem like there are more issues for FOs going into those fleets. I am not in that fleet but have friends who are, and they have all said the training is not designed for lower time/first jet pilots. Does that mean that all low time/first jet pilots will struggle or fail? Of course not. Airlines have been putting those types of pilots into CRJs for years, but their training programs are specifically built for it. So if I were a new hire who fit into the low time/first jet category, I would definitely view being assigned to a large cabin as higher risk than any of the small cabin fleets.

Thank you for reply. Some excellent advice and gives things to think about. I know it's preference, but try to educate myself before then. I honestly knew little about 650 before NJ and never thought it COULD be option.

I have a type in EMB 170/190 and was PIC on a RA390 (Premier 1A); so not completely low time but always have things to learn. I am 6'4" with 36 inseam so don't see Phenom an option. Even if don't ask for 650; guess still could get, so trying to learn what I can.

Again thanks for the reply and fly safe!

I recently learned asking for more sim time and delaying your checkride is considered a failure.

IOE is divided into "Blocks". Block one and two are 10 landing each. Those are newhire, hands on the controls landing. Going into block 3 is another failure. I think of them as HR failures, not FAA failures. As stated above, the company can terminate you after 2 HR failures. I've never heard of a termination after 2 failures, but it's possible. If you just have to bid large cabin within your probation year, the failure count is still accumulating. You could have another issue in your probation year during large cabin training and get fired. This has happened. I recommend keeping your head down after you complete initial training and IOE for the first year.

650 - days are short and easy, pay is low

Lattitude - days are long and tough but the pay is good

Some people on the union board pretend like you need hundreds of hours of SR-71 time and at least a few Space Shuttle landings before you can touch the Challenger, but the reality is they are bitter because back when they were FOs the biggest plane they could hope for a decade was Ultra. It's basically a ****ing CRJ, if you can learn how to operate a lawnmower you'll do fine in a 650.

That is unless you show up with a wrong attitude and goof off instead of studying, then you'd wash out of 650 just as swiftly as you'd wash out of a Phenom.

Lawnmower is probably an apt description since the thing can't get above the 30s unless it's on fumes....🥴

Not exactly correct I average about 25-30 hours a tour.

The 650 is very flow heavy and you're basically the automation for everything.

I've seen a big curve in pilots coming into the plane never having flown a plane at NJA.

Attitude is judged as much as everything else on IOE.

There really isn't any need to. You're not going to get above the weather and you're not going to save any fuel.

It is what it is.

Other, more capable airplanes routinely get above the weather. It was a pretty good airplane for its day after they ditched the Lycoming and hung the GE on it. These days, it's a dinosaur with a terrible wing no matter how much lipstick they put on it. Like you say, it is what it is.

Getting above the weather is definitely a bonus, as is more direct routing when above the weeds. The cabin altitude argument is no longer an issue either. FL450 in the Global provides a cabin altitude of 4500'. And yes, fuel burn is lower above the 30s.