Silver Airways
09-22-2013, 12:52 PM
#4341
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,210
I don't work at Silver, and never have. Take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
But.... here's the situation. The regional airlines are beginning to have issues with staffing. We're seeing it almost across the board. Eagle and RAH are offering their bonuses, and still struggling. Silver is struggling. Lakes is in trouble. I'm not one to shout "pilot shortage" because that's not what's happening, and will likely never happen.
But as was pointed out a few posts above me, in order for upgrades to happen, new FO's must be available. When a company cannot attract applicants, they will be unable to upgrade people. PIC time is an important qualification, but not a requirement at most places. Traditionally, the companies that offered the shortest upgrade were also the companies that offered the worst compensation package and quality-of-life. Lakes, Go-Jet, Mesa, Gulfstream/Silver.... Poor compensation generated attrition off the top, and that created movement top-to-bottom. The supply of new FO's was virtually unlimited, so it was easy to move up the list. Like some places are now finding out, it doesn't matter if the most junior captain at your company was hired 9 months ago.... if there's nobody showing up below you.
Here's what I predict. In the next 3-4 years, the regional airlines with the shortest upgrades will be the ones that can actually attract new-hires. Everyone will be hiring. Most places are hiring now, and that's not going to stop. This is why chasing the short upgrade now is not a great individual strategy, not to mention the compensation issues that it breeds industry-wide.
The solution? Value yourself. If your company can't attract new-hires, don't go whining to former employees at your company who have left, and are now trying to educate the public. If it is a place worth applying at, an honest description of it's positives and negatives won't drive away potential employees.
My company has it's issues. It has some fairly major problems as well as a selection of smaller blemishes. I'm more than willing to give my honest opinion of it, and provide all of the information I can about working here. That is the responsibility I have to other pilots, in order to help them make a good decision for themselves and their families.
Well, that depends. Do you have trip or duty rigs at Silver? Quarterly bonuses? Annual profit-sharing? How's the per-diem rate? Any pay multipliers for crediting extra hours in a bid period? Is premium pay readily available? What are the minimum day rules like?
The hourly rate isn't everything. But from looking at the pay scale, the 1900 captain scale at Silver is a pay cut at every year when compared straight across to some FO Q400 pay.
Upgrade time changes rapidly in both directions. A snapshot when you're a new hire is mostly worthless when it comes to estimating how it will actually be when you are close to 50% on the list.
You "don't believe it will be a year or two" on one hand, but are quick to point out the current figure for another carrier. I don't believe that one is going to be accurate either. Who's right? Neither of us.
But.... here's the situation. The regional airlines are beginning to have issues with staffing. We're seeing it almost across the board. Eagle and RAH are offering their bonuses, and still struggling. Silver is struggling. Lakes is in trouble. I'm not one to shout "pilot shortage" because that's not what's happening, and will likely never happen.
But as was pointed out a few posts above me, in order for upgrades to happen, new FO's must be available. When a company cannot attract applicants, they will be unable to upgrade people. PIC time is an important qualification, but not a requirement at most places. Traditionally, the companies that offered the shortest upgrade were also the companies that offered the worst compensation package and quality-of-life. Lakes, Go-Jet, Mesa, Gulfstream/Silver.... Poor compensation generated attrition off the top, and that created movement top-to-bottom. The supply of new FO's was virtually unlimited, so it was easy to move up the list. Like some places are now finding out, it doesn't matter if the most junior captain at your company was hired 9 months ago.... if there's nobody showing up below you.
Here's what I predict. In the next 3-4 years, the regional airlines with the shortest upgrades will be the ones that can actually attract new-hires. Everyone will be hiring. Most places are hiring now, and that's not going to stop. This is why chasing the short upgrade now is not a great individual strategy, not to mention the compensation issues that it breeds industry-wide.
The solution? Value yourself. If your company can't attract new-hires, don't go whining to former employees at your company who have left, and are now trying to educate the public. If it is a place worth applying at, an honest description of it's positives and negatives won't drive away potential employees.
My company has it's issues. It has some fairly major problems as well as a selection of smaller blemishes. I'm more than willing to give my honest opinion of it, and provide all of the information I can about working here. That is the responsibility I have to other pilots, in order to help them make a good decision for themselves and their families.
Originally Posted by Chrisw
I can not think of a regional that will pay more than 3rd yr silver captain pay within the first 5 years of FO pay somewhere else.
The hourly rate isn't everything. But from looking at the pay scale, the 1900 captain scale at Silver is a pay cut at every year when compared straight across to some FO Q400 pay.
Originally Posted by Chrisw
Your new regional is a great example of the way things should be for other regionals, but the upgrade at delta is shorter than that place. I need the pic and with the people I know in places I can get interviews. Do what you want but letting people ask questions about potential employment without being told to go somewhere else will help us hire and then upgrade.
You "don't believe it will be a year or two" on one hand, but are quick to point out the current figure for another carrier. I don't believe that one is going to be accurate either. Who's right? Neither of us.
Last edited by pete2800; 09-22-2013 at 01:03 PM.
09-22-2013, 01:48 PM
#4342
Respek
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,603
Originally Posted by Chrisw;
Do what you want but letting people ask questions about potential employment without being told to go somewhere else will help us hire and then upgrade.
09-22-2013, 01:58 PM
#4343
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: underemployed
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by pete2800
I don't work at Silver, and never have. Take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
But.... here's the situation. The regional airlines are beginning to have issues with staffing. We're seeing it almost across the board. Eagle and RAH are offering their bonuses, and still struggling. Silver is struggling. Lakes is in trouble. I'm not one to shout "pilot shortage" because that's not what's happening, and will likely never happen.
But as was pointed out a few posts above me, in order for upgrades to happen, new FO's must be available. When a company cannot attract applicants, they will be unable to upgrade people. PIC time is an important qualification, but not a requirement at most places. Traditionally, the companies that offered the shortest upgrade were also the companies that offered the worst compensation package and quality-of-life. Lakes, Go-Jet, Mesa, Gulfstream/Silver.... Poor compensation generated attrition off the top, and that created movement top-to-bottom. The supply of new FO's was virtually unlimited, so it was easy to move up the list. Like some places are now finding out, it doesn't matter if the most junior captain at your company was hired 9 months ago.... if there's nobody showing up below you.
Here's what I predict. In the next 3-4 years, the regional airlines with the shortest upgrades will be the ones that can actually attract new-hires. Everyone will be hiring. Most places are hiring now, and that's not going to stop. This is why chasing the short upgrade now is not a great individual strategy, not to mention the compensation issues that it breeds industry-wide.
The solution? Value yourself. If your company can't attract new-hires, don't go whining to former employees at your company who have left, and are now trying to educate the public. If it is a place worth applying at, an honest description of it's positives and negatives won't drive away potential employees.
My company has it's issues. It has some fairly major problems as well as a selection of smaller blemishes. I'm more than willing to give my honest opinion of it, and provide all of the information I can about working here. That is the responsibility I have to other pilots, in order to help them make a good decision for themselves and their families.
Well, that depends. Do you have trip or duty rigs at Silver? Quarterly bonuses? Annual profit-sharing? How's the per-diem rate? Any pay multipliers for crediting extra hours in a bid period? Is premium pay readily available? What are the minimum day rules like?
The hourly rate isn't everything. But from looking at the pay scale, the 1900 captain scale at Silver is a pay cut at every year when compared straight across to some FO Q400 pay.
Upgrade time changes rapidly in both directions. A snapshot when you're a new hire is mostly worthless when it comes to estimating how it will actually be when you are close to 50% on the list.
You "don't believe it will be a year or two" on one hand, but are quick to point out the current figure for another carrier. I don't believe that one is going to be accurate either. Who's right? Neither of us.
But.... here's the situation. The regional airlines are beginning to have issues with staffing. We're seeing it almost across the board. Eagle and RAH are offering their bonuses, and still struggling. Silver is struggling. Lakes is in trouble. I'm not one to shout "pilot shortage" because that's not what's happening, and will likely never happen.
But as was pointed out a few posts above me, in order for upgrades to happen, new FO's must be available. When a company cannot attract applicants, they will be unable to upgrade people. PIC time is an important qualification, but not a requirement at most places. Traditionally, the companies that offered the shortest upgrade were also the companies that offered the worst compensation package and quality-of-life. Lakes, Go-Jet, Mesa, Gulfstream/Silver.... Poor compensation generated attrition off the top, and that created movement top-to-bottom. The supply of new FO's was virtually unlimited, so it was easy to move up the list. Like some places are now finding out, it doesn't matter if the most junior captain at your company was hired 9 months ago.... if there's nobody showing up below you.
Here's what I predict. In the next 3-4 years, the regional airlines with the shortest upgrades will be the ones that can actually attract new-hires. Everyone will be hiring. Most places are hiring now, and that's not going to stop. This is why chasing the short upgrade now is not a great individual strategy, not to mention the compensation issues that it breeds industry-wide.
The solution? Value yourself. If your company can't attract new-hires, don't go whining to former employees at your company who have left, and are now trying to educate the public. If it is a place worth applying at, an honest description of it's positives and negatives won't drive away potential employees.
My company has it's issues. It has some fairly major problems as well as a selection of smaller blemishes. I'm more than willing to give my honest opinion of it, and provide all of the information I can about working here. That is the responsibility I have to other pilots, in order to help them make a good decision for themselves and their families.
Well, that depends. Do you have trip or duty rigs at Silver? Quarterly bonuses? Annual profit-sharing? How's the per-diem rate? Any pay multipliers for crediting extra hours in a bid period? Is premium pay readily available? What are the minimum day rules like?
The hourly rate isn't everything. But from looking at the pay scale, the 1900 captain scale at Silver is a pay cut at every year when compared straight across to some FO Q400 pay.
Upgrade time changes rapidly in both directions. A snapshot when you're a new hire is mostly worthless when it comes to estimating how it will actually be when you are close to 50% on the list.
You "don't believe it will be a year or two" on one hand, but are quick to point out the current figure for another carrier. I don't believe that one is going to be accurate either. Who's right? Neither of us.
You make excellent points in all regards. As I said before this place needs a lot of help. A lot of stuff is not ok. I am not ignoring that fact in the least bit. As for the duty rigs and premium pay? We have 2 to 1 duty rig, 125% for extension or any pairing adjustment( I think. Might be 150% not sure.), 150% for loss of day off, 3 hr minimum per day(not great i know), 1.70 per diem, and 150% available especially for FO's right now.
As for 1900 pay, that is an unfair representation of our pay scale altogether. I can hold 1900 CA now. Anyone can pretty much. Problem is the majority of that flying is gone or going. In a couple months we will only have 4 1900's in service total. 16 crews in total. Rumors are they are going away completely. Look at Saab CA pay. I am. We have close to 250 pilots and my number is less than 130 so yes I think an upgrade in less than a year is realistic. I can not make that pay at any other regional as an FO which is likely 5 years on a new list.
I appreciate your points and valuable contributions to the thread. I was trying to encourage those that have been making negative meaningless posts to kindly stop. Go ahead and state facts but if someone asks a question about potentially working here let a current employee answer in a truthful manner. Not someone that left. They could be hurting the brothers that they left behind. Obviously they don't like it here that's why they left. I don't like a lot about it either and I will share that with people that ask but there is value here just like anywhere else. In the mean time while waiting for upgrade being senior enough to hold a 17 day off line crediting 92 hours living in FL ain't all that bad. The CA on my line this month has recurrent and gets LDO pay so he will credit 110ish.
09-22-2013, 02:31 PM
#4344
Respek
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,603
17 days off with a handful of 1 or 2 days off between pairings isn't very impressive neither is living in Gainesville but hey to each their own. Also if you could hold captain in the 1900 why aren't you in it now? Why was the guy in your class finishing Saab IOE but others senior to him not? Before you paint a rosy picture tell ppl that a base closure is the reason he got an upgrade.
09-22-2013, 02:44 PM
#4345
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: underemployed
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by Cruz5350
17 days off with a handful of 1 or 2 days off between pairings isn't very impressive neither is living in Gainesville but hey to each their own.
Cruz- you went through a lot of crap here. I am aware of that. You are now at a regional that is truly an example for every regional out there. Industry leading pay, happy employees. These are great things. Problem is other people like it too much and that is why they currently are at a 12 year upgrade. I can't wait that long. I have very strong connections to some airlines that require more than sic turboprop time to get in. I hope you like your new place and upgrade times improve and the QOL is everything you hope for. Silver could learn a lot from that place. I was only asking, as a favor to the pilot group still here at Silver, don't make it any harder than it already is for us to upgrade by going out of your way to steer people somewhere else. That's it.
09-22-2013, 02:50 PM
#4346
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Cruz5350
All you're concerned with is getting your upgrade and that's not going to happen with nobody coming in to replace you. That's pretty selfish to want others to wallow in the mire known as Silver just so you can upgrade get your time and get out. This is aviation though so selfishness is nothing new or surprising.
Like a few others on the site Cruz - it is the delivery method more so than the information.
09-22-2013, 03:25 PM
#4348
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 175 Left
Posts: 1,539
Originally Posted by pete2800
But.... here's the situation. The regional airlines are beginning to have issues with staffing. We're seeing it almost across the board. Eagle and RAH are offering their bonuses, and still struggling. Silver is struggling. Lakes is in trouble. I'm not one to shout "pilot shortage" because that's not what's happening, and will likely never happen.
09-22-2013, 03:36 PM
#4349
Respek
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,603
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
And it is pretty disingenuous to talk down to people working at an airline that you so recently had glowing praise for when they were the only one to give you a shot. Have you forgotten your earlier posts in this thread? Maybe you should go back and review them and then take a different tact when communicating with your former fellow employees.
Like a few others on the site Cruz - it is the delivery method more so than the information.
Like a few others on the site Cruz - it is the delivery method more so than the information.
09-22-2013, 03:52 PM
#4350
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,210
Originally Posted by prior121
Sorry to be the barer of bad news but RAH is not struggling. They're still turning away half they interview
Turning away people at an interview is not the same thing as "not struggling for new hires." Perhaps the crew planning department and the HR/CP's office haven't gotten their heads together on modifying the interview process. Who knows. I know at QX the interview is points based. If you don't score high enough, you're not getting the offer no matter how short-staffed the company may be. Counter-productive? Maybe. The point is, correlating interview failures to staffing numbers isn't going to be accurate.
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