Alaska 135
 

I spent 5 years in bush
alaska and it was the best flying I have ever done. The people in the villages really respect you and are thankful that you bring in the mail,medicines,doctors etc.
Scenery and wildlife are spectacular such as bears, caribou herds ( the mulchatna herd numbers 150,000 ) and many more.
find a reputable company that does good maintenence and enjoy.
I fly for PenAir and they are the best with both a 135 and 121 operation.
look at our website www.penair.com

Hey do you know if someone with 650tt/75 would have a chance to get hired by them, and are they still hiring now?
thanks

you need a 1000 hours and lately we have only hired pilots who already live in Alaska.
move up now the summer hiring will start soon and once established up here then apply

IF I were to show up in Anchorage early April ready to go, is there still opportunity to find some sort of flying job, or are most places already set for the season by then? And is merril field the best place to hang around to find something?
-thanks

Bush Flying
 

Alaska Bush flying can really be a dead end. Everyone who I flew with in the bush are either dead or quit flying, and I flew with a lot of poeple up there. It is difficult to make contacts that amount to anything when you are a bush pilot and employers have a silent prejudice against AK pilots. If your dream is to fly for the airlines I would avoid it at all costs.

In Alaska I knew more people who died with a yoke in hand than ever made it to a major airline or anywhere for that matter. I had a blast up there but i also credit it with helping to kill my career.

SKyHigh

Flying in Bush Alaska has gotten much safer over the years. I've done it for 8 years, and haven't had the same experience as the previous poster. Alaskan flight time has helped many pilots to get hired by at least one currently profitable airline, Alaska. A negative attitude is a good way to kill a career.

Alaska
 

If you are the son of an AS check airman Alaska Airlines might hire a bush pilot. Outside of that they commonly avoid them. What they claim and do are two diffrent things. By the way it hasn't gotten that much safer.

SkyHigh

Your sources suck. I personally know 4 bush pilots who went from my company to Alaska Airlines, none of whom have check airmen parents. The FAA and the insurance companys are forcing airlines to fly safer. Insurance rates are through the roof. Now, more than ever, it pays not to kill your customers. Its not like the old days.

Old Days
 

Nothing has changed since I was there. Companies didn't want to kill customers then either. You still have the same conditions, bad WX, small planes, few WX reporting stations and a demand from pax to get where they are going. If you tell your boss that you can't go because the weather is less than 1000 and 5 while he watches a competitor taxi out with your pax it still will not put a smile on his face. Perhaps you work for Penair, ERA, Frontier or for a sight seeing company where they can afford a little safety? All the places I worked still crash planes and face challenging decisions everyday. I know that it has been a long time since AS hired anyone from the bush and it will be even longer to never now. These days you have to be a CRJ or military superstar to get noticed. A kingair out of Barrow will not cut it anymore. Unless of course you are well connected.

SKyHigh

there are at least ten guys (and two Gals) from penair who are at Alaska that came from PenAir.
It is as safe to fly up here as anywhere. whats different is most is single pilot and little supervision. So guys that break rules have problems. Fly by the rules and be safe.
our company is a great place to work and is absolutely safe and fun and management wants us to be safe. In fact our company procedures are much more restrictive than the FAR's

Penair
 

I am sure that there are guys and gals at AS who are from Penair However that doesn't mean that they will be picked up in the future. Times have changed at significantly since three years ago. Back in 2000 AS was the bottom of the barrel as far as majors went. Who wanted to work for AS at half the pay of a career at AA or UAL? In the interview process one of the questions that HR would ask was "why would you want to work here over DAL"? AS was much less picky back then. The cream of the industry right now has its eye on UPS, FedEx and AS. Today AS has Blue Angles and 29 year old RJ captains in ground school. Soon they will have possibly a pile of NWA MD80 Captains lined up at the front door. Flying a Caravan out of Dillingham wouldn't even cause a moment of pause before they toss the app in the no pile. My aim isn't to cause alarm or discontent but think about it a little. I wouldn't sit in a Cherokee 6 on the ramp at King Salmon and be confident that I am on my way to Alaska Airlines if I were you. Times have changed.

I don't know what equipment you fly for Penair or where your base is. A turbine FO out of ANC is pretty safe, but the deep bush is a different matter. In addition Alaska Airtaxi is like a boiling pot. Things are good for a while after a string of accidents but then competition moves in and the tension causes standards to slip and people begin to get killed. Even now statistics rate a rural Alaskan Cessna pilot as the most dangerous job in the country. Just because you haven't happened upon the wreckage of a college yet doesn't mean that the risk isn't there. These things are played out over long periods of time. Complacency and bad luck are a slow process. They say that the odds of being involved in a fatal accident as a bush pilot in AK reaches 100% after 20 years. Alaskan Aviation has been hailed as a industry run mostly by women. The reason for that is because the husbands who started the business was killed in a crash years prior.

You know that you are in danger when you start thinking that you have it licked and that nothing bad will happen.

SkyHigh

Info
 

AK Pilots,

I hate to continue pouring in more bad news but I have done a bit more thinking and would like to add some more. I don't know what your career goals are but if your dreams include an airline career I can tell you from experience that it is a very difficult conversion from Alaskan 135 to the rest of the aviation world. In your minds I know that you are proud of your accomplishments in Alaska and feel good about the experience that you are building but I hate to say it but most of it is worthless to the outside world. Even as a 121 turbine Captain in AK you are at a competitive disadvantage in today's market. It is frustrating since you realize the efforts that you have put forth to get to this point only to realize that no one outside of Alaska gets it at all. It is kind of like being the football hero in High School and advance to college as just another co-ed at the bottom of the pile. At best you will gain admission to a regional as a new hire to enjoy starting all over again. In the current aviation environment the only thing that matters are good contacts and 121 Jet PIC. In Alaska you can't really get either. You might as well throw away your log books since the only time that will buy you anything is as a 121 turbine or jet captain and the turbine part is fading fast. What would you have to offer a jet airtaxi or corporate flight department? Do you have any jet time? Have you flown much glass cockpits? Do you have any crew experience? How many type ratings do you have? What about flying in dense airspace environments? To most companies you might as well have been mowing the lawn for the last few years since Caravan time is just as useless. (however during lawn mowing you would have a better chance of meeting wealthy airline pilots)

In conclusion if your dreams are to fly corporate jets or for the airlines then you had better take a hard look at what I have said. In the end you will probably have to bite the bullet and take a humiliating job as a new hire at some regional or crummy turbine lower 48 airtaxi. Sitting in ground school with people who only have a few hundred hours and effectively starting all over again. And the longer you wait the harder it will be. I am not trying to burst your bubble but to pass on some painful lessons that my friends and I have had to learn.

Fire Away,

SkyHigh

Nothing has changed? How do you know that? Some of your information is outdated. Some was never correct. In most places 1000 & 5 is quite safe and very legal. (500 & 2 or 1000 & 1 are our day VFR mins.) The old small crappy runways (at least in southwest AK) are being phased out. There are more WX reporting stations. Lots of podunk airports are currently served by GPS approaches. As far as your boss's reaction to your decisions about when not to fly, in many ways that comes right back to you. Have you chosen to work for a sketchy operator? Is your backbone sufficiently weak that you are going to stay with that operator and be allow yourself to be pressured to risk your life? You just cited 3 airlines that you say can afford more safety. Why not go work for one of them then? By the way, there are plenty more airlines which do not operate in the old "bush pilot" mentality.

Sure there are challenging decisions regularly. If you are a poor decision maker, you shouldn't be a pilot. Your old airlines like to continue wrecking planes? There is an interesting relationship between an airline's hiring standards and their frequency of bent metal.

121 PIC experieince with in state carriers will get you an AS interview, when King Air out of Barrow might not.

Dude
 

I use to work for real Alaskan Bush operators. Completely isolated, most of our operations were off airport. We were able to frequent asphalt runways maybe twice a month. Our cross countries were commonly 200 plus miles across mountain ranges and over totally uninhibited wilderness. On the beach there were no rampers to load the plane and tell me the actual weight of cargo and there were not any at my home base either. Weather reporting was sparse and inaccurate as it is today. I was pointless to even get a wx brief since the information was so bad. Even today if your were to tell your boss on the ramp at Bethel that you weren't going since the WX report forecasts a 40% chance of snow they would tell you to pack your bags. It has nothing to do with safety but more of what the job requires. If you were to wait till the FSS gives you a VFR forecast then the villages would have starved by then. Flying from Haynes to JNU doesn't really count as bush flying. SE AK has its challenges but flying up and down Lynn Canal might as well be an interstate. Plenty of pireps, asphalt runways and village wx reporting. Not the same at all.

SKyHigh

Past
 

It might have a few years ago but I wouldn't bank on it today. A few might interview and get hired but it will be because of the contacts and not the experience. Do a little digging and you will most likely find a father or well placed uncle in the background.

SkyHigh

Excuse me, SkyHigh. I didn't know you are an ex-Real Alaskan Bush Pilot. You either need to proofread or think more. Or get a map. Who brought SE Alaska up. I said Southwest. Try opening a set of Alaskan approach plates to see how things have changed. As I'm sure you know, Bethel is where many start their Alaska flying, ie, its full of newbies. I see why they didn't like you, if you tried to stay home when it snowed. Wilderness, ooohh, scarry. No rampers, oh my poor aching back. Does this box weigh 10 or 100 pounds? I just can't tell.

Well??
 

Good for you!! Perhaps you have some merit after all. What kind of plane what base?

Besides what good does an approach do for a 207? How is a Super cub suppose to benefit from ATC when they never get higher than 300' and don't have a transponder? What good is a GPS when you are flying 100' or less above the ground? What good is an ATC system when the 135 minimums are legally lower than an ILS Approach? (Special VFR 1 mile and clear of clouds.) I remember standing on the ramp with some pax while waiting for an Alaska Airlines flight to arrive at Dillingham that had to miss all the while Penair planes were coming and going via Special VFR. Try explaining that to lower 48 pax.

Man they liked me up there. I went out there and did the job. I was trying to make a point regarding your safety comments. If you were to closely adhere to the rules nothing would ever get done in AK. Maybe you should read a little closer as well?

SkyHigh

I fly IFR Caravans, IFR Navajos & VFR Saratogas for PenAir in Dillingham. If we don't have VFR weather, we go IFR. Pretty straight forward. I use GPS approaches all the time. It's the difference of fighting weather from departure to destination, and easily cruising along in the clouds, until the MAP, then landing or going home. If you want to talk about flying around at 100', that's not (for the most part) legal part 135 flying, nor is it smart. I now understand why your ex-coworkers at airlines with such standards have a high mortality rate. If you want to make up your own rules, you will have problems. 99% of the time, if I can't get in on an ILS, I'm not out there flying VFR. (Maybe 1% of the time the approach end of an 8000' runway is foggy, but I can still get in VFR in the middle of the runway.) We do a pretty good job of following the rules. As a result, we do sit out some weather days. As you know, Dillingham has no ILS.

Did you fly here? For whom? Depending on how long you've been gone, you might be interested to hear Koliganek, Ekwok, Leavelok, Clark's Point & Egegik have new runways. New Stuyahok's is under construction. Koliganek & Egegik have AWOS's and GPS approaches.

Ili
 

I flew out of Iliamna for IAT in the early 90's. Back then Penair only had cherokee 6's, navajos and a few metroliners. Everyone mostly flew VRF. After that I flew out of McGrath Galena and ANC for various 135 operators before I was able to escape the state.

SkyHigh

skyhigh
I don't believe that about IAT
I have known Tim for twenty years and what you described is not his style
he is one of the best operators in the state.
did you come up here so you could go back and tell all the scary stories about us to make you look good or what

Tim
 

Well there is a coming law suit filed by possibly 20 ex IAT pilots that says otherwise. I heard that the mechanics already won something. Tim is a prince to customers and outsiders. He was even nice to me until much later. Try working for him and you will see a different side.

I came to Alaska to start a career. Alaskan Air Taxi is dangerous. It is a fact. I lost many friends and acquaintances during my time there. I worked for a few flight schools in ANC and almost every plane that I flew in while working those jobs have crashed since. I am sure that flying a turbine twin out of King Salmon is pretty safe but the guy in the green 207 who is fighting his way across the tundra at dusk still has a real job to do. A lodge beaver pilot still faces the same risks and challenges as 50 years ago. I am not trying to scare anyone but it is a dangerous place. However, It does sound a bit better than when I was there.

SkyHigh

does that include takeflight, because i heard it was a good place, and was considering applying there, i heard they do 135 sightseeing as well as instruction. i have a good job here in the states instructing, but i really want to fly in alaska at least for a short time. do you really think its a bad idea to fly in alaska if i want to go on to the airlines later on, even if i just do it for a season?
thanks

Takeflight
 

You will not see much. Flying around ANC can be pretty pedestrian compaired to what lies beyond the Alaska Range. One season wouldn't be harmful but I would wait till I had enough time to fly for a senic flight company or as forest service contract pilot. I had the most fun doing that. I got to fly all over the state and was alone much of the time. The best option of all is to own a plane, even a simple 150 would do, and head up there on a two month flying safari.

SkyHigh

That would be awesome to fly around the state at your own liesure. Do it in the summer or early fall; the fishing and the hunting would be great. I would love to do that someday:cool:

Yea Man !!
 

I had a simple Cessna 150 and flew it everywhere for the price of fuel. I slept under the wing and camped all over AK. At the time all I owned was the plane and a truck which also served as my home. I also used it to instruct in and would earn a good wage for the time since it was all cash and all mine. I would bounce from Wasilla to Birchwood to Merrill, always being hunted by the airport manager since they were not fond of independent CFI's. I would assign a student to fly to another airport after a solo where I would meet them in the truck. Eventually I flew it to the lower 48 and back a few times. I miss that little plane.

SkyHigh

SkyHigh

Alaska isn't scary... Your attitude is. Your the PIC making the decision to scare yourself or not. If you scared yourself, I bet it was your own fault. And there is 121 time in AK for thoes guys that want it.

Dude
 

Mordi,

If you flew there as a rural Alaska single pilot part 135 piston driver and failed to see the danger in it then perhaps you should juggle knives. Those who pass it off as a cake walk probably haven't really flown the bush. Besides that it is a statistical fact that the job is extremely dangerous and if you don't recognise it then it is you who has the bad, unsafe attitude. I was able to live through it after all. Alaska 121 is a warm and fuzzy place. If that is where you work then perhaps you should take a winter 207 position out of St. Mary's and grow a little religion.

SkyHigh

SkyHigh,

A review of your postings will show anyone you are out of the loop on what being an air taxi pilot in Alaska is like today. Contrary to your dated anecdotes, things have gotten safer. There were exactly zero part 135 fatalities in 2005. Before you compose a tome on how that number is an aberration, why don't you do a little meaningful research? (A hint - reading online postings by other armchair bush pilots doesn't count.)

Great !!
 

I am happy that it seems to be safer. I don't know how but we will say its true. I mean the WX is still there the mountains haven't shrunk. Even if everyone took to flying IFR it still isn't a good idea to cross the Alaska Range in a 207 at 12,000 MEA. So dated or not I am certain that the crash free streak of 2005 will not continue for another year.

Skyhigh

You don't know how it could be safer? Your posts describe certain extra legal piloting behavior. Try wrapping your mind around the idea that we are doing a better job of flying by the rules these days.

Rules?
 

We always followed the "rules". The problems with Alaska are the distances involved and multitude of variables that are out of your control. I don't know who you fly for or what you do but flying a beaver super cub or 185 in rural Alaska in an off airport environment always has a high risk factor and always will. Lake Clark pass doesn't follow any rules. There is no GPS that will make it any safer. There are no performance charts for a Super cub. Gravel bars don't have Jepp charts. If you are flying right seat (or left) in an IFR equipped turbine then you don't know what I am taking about. You might as well be in Wisconsin. A part of you might just recognise the risk and is clinging on to the FAR's as a security blanket thinking that it will save you.

SKyHigh

The title of your last post says it all: Rules? A short review of some of you "expert" Alaskan flying wisdom shows you don't know what the rules are.

[QUOTE=SkyHigh]How is a Super cub suppose to benefit from ATC when they never get higher than 300' and don't have a transponder? What good is a GPS when you are flying 100' or less above the ground?

[QUOTE=SkyHigh]If you tell your boss that you can't go because the weather is less than 1000 and 5 while he watches a competitor taxi out with your pax it still will not put a smile on his face.

If your really don't get how flying VFR at 500' or more (that comes out of that funny book that you have no aquaintance with called the FARs) is safer than doing it at 100' or less as you have described, there is really no way I can explain it.

Huh ??
 

[QUOTE=lzakplt]The title of your last post says it all: Rules? A short review of some of you "expert" Alaskan flying wisdom shows you don't know what the rules are.

[QUOTE=SkyHigh]How is a Super cub suppose to benefit from ATC when they never get higher than 300' and don't have a transponder? What good is a GPS when you are flying 100' or less above the ground?


You must be a turbine guy. You sound like a pvt plt. What would you say to a crop duster? "Oh they fly too close to the ground. They are dangerous"! How about the military? Would you tell those fighters to "slow down"?

It is part of the job. When I flew part 135 in AK the rules were 500' and 2 miles vis. In order to come and go from an airport with an approach you needed 1 mile and clear of clouds for special VFR. Those were the rules. Outside of the airport and away from official observations it was anyone's guess as to what the WX was. I suppose you tell your boss that you had to turn around because at one point in the flight you suspected that the vis might of bumped 2 miles? Are you a surveyer? Can you accurately tell what two miles vis is from the flight deck? What then would you tell your boss when his reply is that all the other planes made it.

Your naivety exposes you as some kind of neophyte. If anything you are you are a new hire FO in a turbine twin. You probably haven't flown anywhere in Bristol Bay alone in a piston single. You probably haven't ever landed outside of the airport environment either. Once you mature a bit you will realize that rules are necessary and good to follow but every walk in life and every branch of aviation has to bend them from time to time in order to get the job done.

In case you are really that type "A" and out of touch with the realities of real world aviation then you would have an awesome career with the FAA. If you do reply to this please enlighten us with the position of privilege that you must have in order to posses such a green perspective?

SKyHigh

Hey Mr Potato Head,

I've already told you in this thread what I do and where I fly. Your short term memory and your lack of attention to detail didn't help you in the cockpit any, did they?

Are you even for real? I'm thinking you're employed by Airline Pilot Central just to say the stupidest things you can think of, just to egg people on so they use this site.

1 mile and clear of clouds is only for in the control zone of an airport, and is a very small portion of any flight in the "vast and scarry state of Alaska". You asked a question any new hire on the Yukon/Kuskokwim delta could answer. Determiming 2 miles of visibility is simple. While flying at 120 knots, you pick the farthest point in front of you in your line of flight which you can see. If after 1 minute, you can still see it, the visibility is at least 2 miles. (If you ask without drooling too much, maybe you special ed teacher can confirm the math for you.) If the visibility is less than 2 miles you turn around.

You want to know what my boss says when I turn around due to weather? "Good job, I'm paying you to keep our passengers safe." He could give a flying f#$% that the competetion made it and we didn't. I've been thanked many times by passengers for turning around and not putting their lives at undue risk. Because I care about the people in this state, let me offer some thanks. SkyHigh, thank you for leaving this state and ceasing your self admittedly unsafe flying.

Well !!
 

Whatever you say man, but I worked up there for nearly 8 years and never even scratched the paint. You and I still don't work in the same environments. Hauling the mail and picking up hunters are two very diffrent operations. Perhaps your boss is a little nervious when he watches you taxi out and dosen't want to pressure you. I understand, you sound more like an accountant than a pilot. We can aggree to disagree if you would like.

SkyHigh

I sound more like an accountant than a pilot? Congratulations, you may be on the cusp of understanding what I tried politely to point out 31 posts ago. Maybe the words I used were too big. Read this next line carefully. Commercial aviation has changed since you left this state.

Respectfully disagree
 

Still, perhaps your company has changed but I know from friends who still work up there that little has changed as far as lodge and hunter 135 flying goes. I also would like to mention again that Alaska goes through periods when it is conservative and times when they push it. Lucky for you that things sound easier.

You can't sit on one corner of the state working for one company and claim that the entire state has changed. When the WX is bad for days on end and there are hunters afield who ran out of food days ago you find a way to get there. When someone has a life threatening injury and needs to be medevaced to ANC you get there. When the mail contains someones life sustaining medication someone makes it happen. And finally if you are flying a single engine piston plane on the sunniest day of the year you are still in danger and no amount of book learning, rule following geekism will save you it the engine decides to explode.

Try coming down here and working for a garden variety regional airline or jet charter outfit and you will witness rule bending from time to time inorder to get through the day.


SkyHigh

Didn't you give aviaion up in order to pursue some career which suits you better? (Arby's manger, plumber, purveyor of gay clown porn?) Why don't you grow up, move out of your parents basement and find an online bulletin board catering to what you actually know? I'm sure there are plenty of services catering to star trek memorabilia and the like.

Though I’m disinclined to prolong this torturous exchange, a few more points:

I never said everyone in Alaska or elsewhere follows all the rules all the time. If a guy is VFR 100 miles from home and weather drops below mins he's not going to just throw up his hands and crash. However in most airlines and around the state, there is a continuing movement to fly more safely. (Podunk Mom & Pop operations? Maybe safety can be a little more pot-luck.) One example of our improving culture of safety can be found at www.medallionfoundation.org. Just for the record, I've had the good fortune to work in a few of this state's corners for 2 reputable airlines in 7 different types of aircraft. (Plus private flying in as many types.)

[QUOTE=SkyHigh]You can't sit on one corner of the state working for one company and claim that the entire state has changed. When the WX is bad for days on end and there are hunters afield who ran out of food days ago you find a way to get there. When someone has a life threatening injury and needs to be medevaced to ANC you get there. When the mail contains someones life sustaining medication someone makes it happen. And finally if you are flying a single engine piston plane on the sunniest day of the year you are still in danger and no amount of book learning, rule following geekism will save you it the engine decides to explode.

Hunters? They've probably got a goat or something to eat. If not, they should have packed a few more mountain house meals. (If they are sorry hunters, chances are they have ample fat supplies of their own to sustain them for weeks.) Am I going to let the problem they created by not planning for likely delays become my problem?

Medivacs? In 5 plus years I've logged hundreds of hours doing them around Bristol Bay, the Lake Illiamna region, down the Alaska peninsula, (a few visits to the Y/K delta), and to Anchorage. Interestingly, the hospital here approves of our safety policies, and continues to use our company exclusively. They've got this peculiar theory that if we push the weather to try to save one life, it might backfire, killing the crew of 3 on the aircraft. (You know this has happened.) Strangely, they aren't into hastening the demise of their medics or me. (If the weather really sucks, we call the professional heros: the Coast Guard or the National Guard.)

Medication? Refer to the above sensible method of decision making.

Geekism & single engine explosions (in wheel planes, in hospitable terrain (southeast Alaska)) on sunny days? Been there, done that, and I will agree with you that it is not very fun. (Thankfully, everyone was OK.)

I don’t doubt the experiences you describe having in this state. However, they do not paint a full picture of what it is like to fly here today, especially for a reputable airline. You are out of line trying to paint pictures of doom and gloom to anyone on this forum who mentions Alaskan aviation.