And you are probably al-right! Here's hopin' you never get caught with your pants down, Cap! ;)

This is the first time i have ever heard the FARs accused of being vague. I have heard them called "uninteligible lawyer speak, overly complicated, too restrictive, and etc.... but I never heard them called vague. The FARs are only vague to people who dont wish to apply them and maybe I hit a little close to home for you. Sorry. I would hope your yardstick of safety was higher than "I have never had an accident". Remember what happened with Southwest and their POI.

Guess you just started then:confused:

Not really, and trying to keep hitting under the belt doesn't bother me. It probably makes you feel better and smarter, and for that I am happy:o

That isn't all I said in that sentence. The FAA is happy with the way my company conducts business, so is my boss and my pilots and most importantly, so am I. What else do I need:D

For those who missed it the first time around...

Personally I hope the FAA makes a change to this reg,
and make it as clear as the new clean wing thing, where even polished frost is considered a contaminated wing and subjects you to a violation.

I know of a company who draws the line, according to their POI " on call is on duty" and if they can't complete the flight in 14 hours from the time they start " on call " another pilot flies the trip.

My employer is very safety conscious and if someone were to refuse a trip due to fatigue, I doubt they would even think twice about it ...but doing it too much and you mind find yourself looking for another job.

unfortunately in my experience this is either a gray area or an ignored and exploited area, then again I have refused to fly airplanes on more than one occasion, and for more than one employer and have never been fired for that yet.

"Come on guys, stop doing this stuff for these guys. Stop risking your certificate, future, and life (fatigue)! If the boss wants to have a jet available to him on a moments notice, then he should hire adequate crews to handle a situation like that."

LOL! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!! LOL!

Thats right.. you stop doing this for your boss and your boss will find one or more of the 5000+ furloughed guys that will (and probably for less money)!!!


On-Call is at rest PERIOD! We might not like it, but that's how it is.

Thats what makes us our own worst enemies.

If your boss only hires pilots who violate the FARs, are you sure that is where you want to be working to begin with? The FAR is very clear; if you have an obligation to be contactable and accept assignment, then you are not at rest. It is true there are many ways to talk your way around a violation in this scheme, but that comes down to one's own integrity.

The definition of rest period in §§121.467(a) and 135.273(a) of the final rule states that ‘Rest period means the time period free of all restraint or duty for a domestic, flag, or supplemental air carrier or commercial operator and free of all responsibility for work or duty should the occasion arise.’

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Since this topic keeps coming up, can someone provide a reference for an FAA Document that states that being on call for a 135 is considered rest. The subject keeps coming up. Every reference I find says it is against the rules. It seems to be a popular opinion that it is okay. A wise instructor of mine once told me that unless I could prove and document something that it was just an opinion. And you know what they say about opinions. The FAA has plenty of reference for rest requirements, definitions, examples. I have yet to see one that says on call is rest. I would like for someone who feels that it is rest to provide documentation beyond "my POI says its ok". If I am incorrect about this I would sincerely like to learn the correct interpretation but have been unable to find any reference for this interpretation. Thank you in advance. Everything I find says that if you are available for work/duty "should the need arise" then you are not at rest. Available for duty should the need arise sounds like "on call".