Airline Pilot Central Forums - www.eaglejet.net ?

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If I were the man who got to weigh in on a hiring, ANYONE that has paid for a right seat job does not get the job. Period. However; I am far from being that man, it just makes me sad.

I have never paid for time building.... period.... and I took the long road... I ran out of money when it came time to do the cfi thing so I up and moved to fly wx mod and from there I was hired into the right seat to fly freight around the caribbean.... furloughed there.... went and flew pipeline back in TX for a while and recently was hired by colgan..... there is absolutely no reason to pay for time.... none whatsoever... like others have said before..... you are a commercial pilot... you need to be paid for your time and effort to earn that certificate. End of story.

Don't even think twice about paying for time. I've been instructing for just less than a year and I have over 500 me time. Granted it's only seminole time but me time is me time. You will learn so much more being an instructor and confidence will go through the roof. There are plenty of schools that use small twins that you can instruct at.

JSDL, where do you teach?

Quote:

Originally Posted by de727ups (Post 458970)

One of the eaglejet programs places guys in the right seat of a B99 at Amflight. It's not taking anyones job away and you're not "working for free" cause you're not really "working". The plane can go without you, and normally it does. In fact, you can be bumped for freight.

Is this time valuable? Maybe a little bit under certain circumstances. But I'd put time as a CFI as more valuable, and right seat timebuilding programs shouldn't be a substitue for that. Certainly, 250 hours is way overkill and not necessary.

I agree that nobody should ever work for free. It's not good for the profession and gives management bad ideas. My test for these things is "can the airplane go without me". If the answer is yes, then you're hardly taking a job away from anyone. If the answer is no, then you should be paid.

Somebody will say "well, how can you log the time if you're not a required crewmember". That's a good question for eaglejet. But I believe Amflight has something in their ops specs that allows these guys to log the time. I know they have been doing this program for years.

Very well put, and if I might add my own .02. You're absolutely right about AMF, they can and will operate without FO's on the BE99. The main advantage is that you're going to learn more about flying hard IFR from a freight dog than you will from a CFII with 5 hours of actual instrument.

It is in the ops specs for reduced takeoff minimums, and you could also rationalize that it allows for "two crew" rest requirements. No FO, no problem, if you can help, that's great.

The biggest thing I have a problem with is FO's logging PIC time. The regs clearly state that you have to have privledges in addition to the rating. Under part 135, you only have privledges as an SIC. If eaglejet is advertising that you can get all your time as PIC, they should be repremended.

All in all, true time on the job is best, and many companies have a list of complaints about FO's who come out of these programs who didn't learn a dang thing.

Can I just ask a question? What about the guys who just want to get out of here. I started at AmEagle and jumped over to Republic only to get furloughed 7 months later. Now I have 2 SIC types, 1150 TT and practically zero Options. I just want to get enough time to get out of here. Go to China or Japan or something. So what now? just sit here and wait for three years for the economy to turn around... Flip burgers? Im not going to move just to become a flight instructor again. THAT IS A COST IN AND OF ITS SELF. Im just currious cuz i feel like im at the end of my freakin rope here. I need to fly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airman (Post 458461)

I just got my AMEL and was looking to build some time. I was browsing websites and came across Eaglejet.

Does anyone have any experience with these people and their operations? Is is worth spending $20,800 for 250hrs of SIC time in a Shorts-360?

My instructor wants me to get my MEI instead and start teaching first, kind of leaning towards getting the MEI and adding the I, and II later.

Any tips is highly appreciated!

Beware of the Time Building scams that are out there. If you're flying right seat carrying cargo, the time is NOT loggable unless the aircraft requires two pilots. 14CFR Part 61.51(f).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airman (Post 458587)

I am not paying to work for them, I am paying them to log the occasional PIC time. They also have PIC time for Twin Otters. Take the time to read what their programs offer. I know this is not the way most people would go about aquiring experience, and neither am I. I was merely curious to see if anyone had any experience with these folks.

Tell you what men, I believe the Shorts 360 requires a two man crew to operate. And if you are paying to occupy one of those seats, you are simply paying someone to have the privilege of working for them. Simple as that. And besides, those 250 hours that you buy will not get you far in this day and age when you have thousands of guys with thousands of hours to compete against. Listen to your instructor and remember in this game, it's all about patience my friend, patience!

Instead of paying 20K to fly a Shorts, go to ACC...THEY PAY YOU 25K, and you get benefits. How can some companies compete when other companies have pilots paying them large amounts of money? No wonder why we get paid what we do. "Your cargo will be there by tomorrow, the price is free today, our new FO agreed to pay for it; I hope you choose us again, thank you."

I wonder who will start the first cargo company to have all pilots, captains and FOs, pay them. You know they would have hundreds of applications.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airman (Post 458587)

Chill out flyinaway411, I didn't mean to offend you in any way. I understand that you value your job as a pilot very highly and that paying someone to gain experience is a no-no according to your beliefs.

I am not paying to work for them, I am paying them to log the occasional PIC time. They also have PIC time for Twin Otters. Take the time to read what their programs offer. I know this is not the way most people would go about aquiring experience, and neither am I. I was merely curious to see if anyone had any experience with these folks.

Air,

I signed on for a similar program. After researching it, and listening to the advice of experienced individuals on this site, I cut bait. I see Fly's point now. Why the hell would any company ever compensate you fairly if there are individuals willing to pay for the same position. That sort of thing is exactly why RJ FO's are making 16k a year. Fly your e-mail was quite relevant and very enlightening. That said, Air, in no way am I chastising you for considering this program, I lost a large deposit after signing up for essentially the same thing. Just damn glad I didn't lose the total program cost. Best of luck and, even if you have the money to do something like this, I think it will be detrimental in the long run because inevitably it will affect, in some way, how you are compensated down the road. I now realize why folks here are so adamant about the operation of these programs.