Jesus


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Hide the pain Harold is spot on.

Article in Forbes on acquisition of Red Wings Aviation by XOJET wholly owned subsidiary of Vista Global.

Reports are 50 more light jets to be added to RA fleet. Good news for RA

https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggol...3c720f3428b9It was only a decade ago the best minds in business aviation believed the next big market for private jets was China and the Far East. What a difference 10 years does make.

Thomas Flohr's announcement this morning that he is immediately expanding his U.S. fleet with 15 Cessna Citation V Ultra light jets and has plans to grow it to more than 50 indicates around two-thirds of Vista Global's XO and VistaJet branded aircraft could be flying with N-registered tail numbers.



For a company that has made its name by flying billionaires and oligarchs on ultra-long-range jets from places like Almaty and Kinshasa to global capitals like Tokyo and London, the future suddenly looks like it will include a healthy dose of hops from Tulsa to Little Rock.

It's the type of flying that is the backbone of American business aviation, flights under two hours, often connecting cities where it's not efficient to drive, but without nonstop airline flights, making private travel a smart option.



In fact, a press release notes, “XO’s membership base has nearly doubled since April, and its new members, as well as existing customers, are increasingly looking for solutions for their short distance travels. Many flyers, living or working outside the major aviation hubs, are facing firsthand the restrictions resulting from deep reductions in commercial aviation services. A light jet is the perfect solution to travel short distances between underserved locations.”

Each aircraft will be upgraded to match cabin standards of the current XO fleet, the company said.

The move comes two years to the month after Flohr, VistaJet's founder and chairman, closed on his acquisition of XOJET and its 43 super-midsize jets. He followed that up by buying tech-focused broker JetSmarter. XO is the result of merging the charter sales units of the two companies.



Vista Global Holding Limited, Flohr's Dubai-based parent company, restricted by foreign ownership rules, has a minority stake in XOJET Aviation LLC, the Part 135 charter operator that flies his airplanes that are based here.

Of course, that's the point. Previously VistaJet had to outsource its U.S. registered aircraft operations to a third-party.

Needless to say, Flohr isn't the only one with a bullish outlook about America’s private aviation opportunity. U.K.-based brokers Air Partner, Air Charter Service, and Victor have all been expanding their footprint and the products they offer here.

Doubtless, there will be more overseas interest. McKinsey's recent study claimed less than 10% of U.S. households that can afford the private skies were partaking before COVID-19.

While changes in tax laws under a Biden administration may negate benefits of owning your jet that came under legislation put forward by President Trump, that may only spur interest in membership and charter solutions like the ones XO and VistaJet sell. Expect more announcements.

Does the acquisition by XO change how Red Wing will operate? Or will they operate as two separate companies?

Are you ever NOT negative about anything?

Thomas Flohr, CEO of Vista Global (Red Wing falls under VG), said the daily bookings for VG exceeds capacity by 30%.

The excess must be off-fleeted to others. Before RW acquisition that off-fleet for light jet requirements could've gone anywhere but the likelihood that those requirements would come directly to RW makes sense. Memberships in VG/XO travel programs increased 3x in 2020. Many of those were done at low or zero initial fees unlike pre-Covid.

When they come up for renewal, some may balk at paying the renewal annual fee but instead of losing them outright, VG/XO will have an affordable entry point for them with RW aircraft which will be at a lower cost per hour. The customer doesn't lose his "private jet" status but now flies with RW.

Some will leave, some will stay with VG/XO and others will choose a more budget friendly option with RW...having light jet options allows VG/XO to capture more money instead of it going out the door to competitors.

New to the APC forums, but anyone know if their hiring minimums are hard numbers? Can time in type fudge other numbers? Or lots of multi time etc?

Unless your family starving on the streets or there has been a recent change of management. I would stay away from them. Most companies I can extract at least one good thing out of them. With this company I can’t even plays devils advocate. Sure a management troll will claim all this good stuff but I know too many MSP pilots that have PTSD from this company...

Interview
 

Has anyone interview with this company recently. Can you share experience ?

Alright thanks. I wasn’t sure if things would be changing due to XO taking ownership. I wouldn’t think XO would want the terrible name Red Wong has.

Yeah hate to spoil your hopes on this one Xojet did buy them. However they have made it abundantly clear they are keeping the operation separate. That in its self is odd. They want the network and support just not the employees boosted to Xojet standards. Go figure as Xojet a highly respected operation for the most part amongst pilot and the 135 charter world.

One of my coworkers said Xojet hiring again and received an email from them. Might toss your resume there way.

XO Crew Resources (XOCR) has opened an announcement for CL-350s. They also fly Globals but no announcement for that. The compensation and work/HR rules are very different between XOCR and XO Aviation (XOAV). Be sure you know what you’re applying for...

I heard that the Round Table was working
 

I heard that the Round Table was addressing this pay and benefits disparity between the XO/Vista sides.. Also, I heard that Atlantic Bucks and Rental Cars might be coming back, which is awesome... Are you all getting used to the new uniforms for the XO side? They look pretty nice, although I’m sure that they are not as comfortable. But you are certain to get more tips in that get up! LOL..

I’m not privy as to what the RT may be working on with respect to XO/Vista or Atlantic bucks. Not sure what you mean about rental cars as we have freely had them available whenever needed or desired. While the uniforms are not as comfortable as before, they haven’t been all that bad and it’s what the boss wants. And yes, I do get more compliments when I wear it. Who knew everyone likes a red tie?

Well, they're currently doing a bait-and-switch on LinkedIn, advertising for PIC positions on airframes they don't have, and offering candidates who interview for those XL positions a spot on a V with the ability to upgrade when they receive the XLs. Considering they were supposed to add Xs back in 2016 which they still don't have 5 years later, I wouldn't be holding my breath for those XLs.

How's that for an interview experience?

All you have to do is look at this board for about 5 minutes to draw your conclusions about the company. Their reputation is well-deserved. People who want to ask 'why are you so negative about this company' have obviously never worked with them.

Either way it seems like they are being pretty particular about who they give offers and interviews to. One friend got an interview but a thanks but no thanks. I haven’t even gotten a email asking me to go bugger off.

Any recent experiences of this company? Any changes with the new owners, better, worse, interviews, work schedule?
Thanks in advance.

I just went through the interview process and was told there is flow towards XO. I believe their chief pilot comes from Vista. Anybody has 2021ish recent experience here?

I talked to a couple of Redwing guys on the road a month or so ago. Their stories were not very good at all, but they did have a couple of good things to say about the new CP. Maybe things are starting to turn??? Never heard of any flow to XOJET, but both are “XO”-branded now, so maybe some day…

I just got hired by them and the reviews here and elsewhere are not good, so now Im stressed. It seemed like a good fit. 97K a year to Captain a Citation. 15 on, 13 off and they fly you from your home airport to work. Very little night shift. How bad could it be? The pilots have to drive everywhere and the maintenance is terrible? Hotels are roach infested?

It’s all about the Adventure….. I’m sure it will be fine


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Don't forget the rule #1 of APC. Things are never as bad, or good, as they seem in here.

Any new info? Thinking of sending my app today for FO.

It's entirely different than it was before the buy out. Management is supportive and helpful. No more airport standby. Better SOP and safety culture. CP is over the top helpful. The airplanes are sharp with new paint and interiors.

Update
 

Anyone have first hand account of the atmosphere at Red Wing now that a little time has passed since they were bought out? Is it the same family run business with new owners? Seemed like they had a horrible reputation in the past years but wondering if XO has overhauled the place?

7 days on 6 off OR 15 on and 13 off.

Must stay within 2 hours of gateway airports even on your off time. You know, just in case they need you to fly on your days off.

Seems as though they are looking for people that live in those gateway airports at the least.

Is this recent or from the prior operation before XO bought them out? I'm truly interested in them if they have changed, I know all the old horror stories when it was run as a family business etc. I just havent been able to lock down if it is true that they have changed their ways under their new ownership.

So is a short leash the norm?

Generally one researches an employer BEFORE one applies. Certainly before one interviews. Absolutely before one is hired.

Within 2 hours on your days off? That’s not “days off”.

TC

Talked to an employee, sounds like the old CEO is still there which made me skeptical of applying but there is a new chief pilot who everyone loves… sounds like management is being forced to conform to XOjet standards and the pilot i talked to said its much better than it used to be… planes are all uniform and much nicer, they have xls now and not only ultras… They are much more picky and dont just hire anyone anymore. I worked there many years ago and got hired over the phone after one conversation to HR all within an hour… red flag. Still have my doubts but might be worth checking out if xo really has changed them.

Its going to be a hard pass for me. I did some research, talked to some guys flying and also completed the interview process. Ultimately, I accepted another job the day after my group/personal interview at Red Wing. After the interview I decided that even if I didn't get the other two jobs I was pending for I was going to withdraw from Red Wing. I'm not desperate for a job but that should tell you something that I would rather not get a job than to get one from them. After the group presentation I was 50/50 on whether I should even do the personal interview. The presentation was very professional but here were so many red flags as to extremely high turnover. Their average tenure is just over 1 year and it sounded like that was only because they hold the 1 year training contract over your head. The new Chief Pilot seemed pretty defensive when one of the applicants asked what their turnover was like and what they were doing since Vista Global took over to change that. The Chief Pilot came across as possibly arrogant and defensive during the presentation. During the personal interview I confirmed he was just the type of guy I would not like to work for. He was arrogant, cocky and really seemed like a "I'm up here and you are down there and you are lucky I'm taking the time to talk to you" type guy. In the weeks prior to this interview I had went through 5 or 6 interviews, a couple of 2nd and 3rd round interviews, so I had lots of recent interview experience. The solid 135 companies with employees who stay for decades were so friendly during the interview, they acted like they really cared about you, they wanted to know about not only your professional experience but also your family life and really wanted to see your personality come out to see if you would be a good match for their team. It was like like I was already on their team and just convincing them I was a good match. Red Wing and a couple other high turn over 135 operators, I knew 5 minutes into the interview that they were not a team, just a group of employees waiting to find a better job but took this one to buy time. Red Wing really cements the high turnover culture from the start with their management style then really make the employees quick to leave with their treatment and abusive scheduling. The pilots I talked to basically said that you can guarantee you will for sure have a 14 hour duty day every day and if you get done early you sit at the FBO while they are scrambling to throw you into another flight. I just dont see how they think they will ever retain someone working them 14 hours a day for 15 days straight or even on the 8/6 schedule working 8 14 hour days every cycle. They explained that due to their pilot shortages they have to work the existing pilots even longer days up to the duty limits in order to cover their demand. Sounds like a never ending cycle. The funniest thing about the whole experience of the interview which summarizes my feelings about the CP, one of his "technical questions" was to describe the differences in type 1 and type 4 deice fluid. I couldn't remember so I said that I had not dealt with deice fluid in years and could not remember the differences off hand. I didn't know but also know that I would soon likely be refreshing on this subject if hired for a 135 job, but operating piston FIKI airplanes for the last 20 years it just did not come up much because we didn't operate in those conditions 99.99% of the time. But since I didnt know the answer, I politely asked what the differences were because I thought it would show that although I dont have all the answers I do want to learn. He made some underhanded comment that for a 135 interview you would think one would study and know this answer, the the CP rattled off a bunch of info about the types of deice fluid. I was taking notes and I wrote down all the info he gave me about deice fluid that I should have known, he was really cocky about it too. After the interview I googled it and he was actually wrong about 1/2 of the info he relayed to me. I knew at that point that he was just the type of guy that drove a high turn over operation and the kind of CP that I'm not interested in working for. The good news is that they are hiring a lot, they gave all the numbers during the group interview, if you do the math they are hiring for more than 100% turnover. Just not type of place would want to work.

Thanks for the write out, the only purpose of this company is to build time seems no one one wants to stay there for long. Chief pilot sounds terrible, looks like ill be looking elsewhere

Everyone applying to Red Wing should read iflybygps’ review of the CP. It’s 100% spot-on. Absolutely nailed it…

Hey maybe Red Wing is a good match for guys/gals that are job hoppers, that like the adventure of perpetual new jobs. That is just not for me. I wont take a job if i don't see a 5-10 year enjoyable stint. There is actually a question the ATP written that emphasizes the dangers of operations that have pilots routinely work 14 hour duty cycles in what the FAA calls wait, then fly, then wait then fly all day long operations. There was actually a guy in my group that was probably in his early 70's, he looked to be in good shape and all that but I wondered how at that age the body handles 14 hour days back to back for 8-15 days in a row?? Just sounds dangerous and unhealthy. Don't get me wrong, I can totally see working to the duty limit occasionally especially with weather etc, just not making a business model based upon every day. As for the CP, maybe he is a likeable guy, but my instant assessment is that he is not a guy I would trust or someone I would go to in a time of need or as to looking for leadership. I wondered why a guy would come out of international jet operations living abroad to come be the CP of a smallish 135 operation in rural Wisconsin? He sounded like a kiwi so I'm sure its not to be close to family. Maybe he just enjoys the rural lifestyle if sub zero temps for 6 months of the year. Either way, LOTS OF RED FLAGS!!

Steer Clear
 

Interviewed there a month or so ago. Chief pilot was a red flag for me. Seemed like he was always trying to trap you with questions so he could chime in and be smarter than you. They did not communicate well to set up interview and also did not communicate well after the interview. I felt the company was very unprofessional in the way they handled the whole interview process. Glad I received an offer elsewhere.

Just FYI
 

From what I’ve been hearing it sounds just like another XOjet op based in FRG except it’s the D.O. that’s the problem.

Besides the chief pilot and interview chaos anytime else you didnt like about the company? Ive heard the horror stories and cant imagine it could possibly still be as bad as it used to be