King Air time?
 

Are there ANY King Air operators (or ANY turbojet aircraft operators) in the NE Ohio area that I could possibly get some right seat time in??

850TT 105ME CFII/MEI.

Nobody will even look at hiring you without time in type, but if you don't have access to a King Air or jet, how are you supposed to get time in type!! (without going to the regionals making $19k a year). Lovely catch 22 of this business!! :confused:

So PLEASE, anyone in this area, please respond!! :):)

there might be something out there but here are some thoughts about the area.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/co...rate-jobs.html

Problem with the King Air it does not require two pilot's and unless you are the sole person at the controls you can't log it. SIC will not work. Try to find a jet operator, but with your low time that's going to be hard considering the insurance. Just keep plugging away. You'll get there and never give up!

Whats up quinny! Hows Ohio treating ya? I'm sure you can find out who i am from my profile...

ahh the start of the pilot shortage! 350 more hours and you can go get a pt.135 gig. if people never go to the regionals things might get better

The only way to legally log SIC time in a King Air is if it is flying passengers, under 135, WITHOUT a working, three axis autopilot. I have never heard of a 135 King Air operator that was NOT authorized to operate single pilot with autopilot in lieu of a SIC. For that matter, I never heard of a King Air that didn't have an autopilot (unless you count the 1900 as a King Air).

The regionals won't touch you with those hours. The lowest I have heard is 1000/200, but following the recent purchases and mergers, furloughees are getting first dibs.

The last time I looked for a biz jet SIC job was about four years ago (just as the hiring boom started). I had 5000 PIC, 2000 AMEL PIC, and 1000 turboprop PIC. On 40 resumes, I got four interviews, and two offers. With your times and this economy, you might want to lower your sights a bit.

Sounds like some one needs to keep CFI'ing for a few hundred hours more.

Exact reason i hate posting questions on here anymore, smart-ss comments like this. I'm just asking for a little help from some local pilots, if you're not local, then you're not helping. :(

What's up C? Not much happening around here, trying to get some decent times in the book since i'm still stuck working at 'you know where'. :)

How's the freight gig working out for ya?

Easy Quinny it was a joke. Relax.

Sorry, bad day at work. Didn't mean to take it out on you.

I am not in NE Ohio. I fly a corporate Baron. I dont have much turbine time. My company bought the airplane about a year ago. We have already out grown the Baron. We are looking to upgrade to a C90B or a B200. If you find anything flying a Baron, Senneca, Navajo, ect. Think about it. A lot of corporate flight dept start with something small and grow from there. That may be something to consider. There is my constuctive comment.

Appreciate it. Thanks.

That isn't entirely accurate. You have to be issued the Autopilot in lieu of SIC Op Spec (paragraph A-something) and the PIC will also have to be trained/checked (135.297 g.). I, like you, don't know anyone operating a King Air 135 without that op spec/checking/training but I'm sure they're out there.

My point is that the autopilot doesn't seal the deal. It's the Op Spec, training and checking that do. Even with the autopilot, if there's no Autopilot-in-lieu-of-SIC authorization, you need the SIC for 135 pax IFR ops (135.101).

-mini

Cmon now you've got 850 hours and complaining about not flying a jet. :rolleyes:
I understand your trying to move up the ladder, everyone wants to, Yet you dont even have 135 mins yet. Keep instructing get your 1200 hours then look into some single pilot freight stuff. If a someone with a jet offers you something between now and then great, if not work on making yourself more marketable.

Sounds like he's following your advice... building time while asking if anyone knows of any work out there. No eye-roll required

Seeing you are on a LR 60, what are your company's requirements for SIC? I'm just curious.

Citation XLS not LR60,not sure what the insurance wants. Owner wants 2500TT an ATP and of course a type rating. Now that I think about it a little more I think I may have heard 1500TT with a type was the least they would accept. I could be wrong though

I don't understand this post.. What King Air operator is going to hire you with 850 hours anyways?? Are you trying to say no operator will hire you without turbine time?

The only way that you can log King Air time on the passenger seat is if the PIC is a CFI. Even then, it's pretty worthless time, not only to you but to the recruiters. Now, it won't hurt when you hit pt135 mins and you are applying for a king air position. But I'm not sure if that's your intention with the above post.

So getting instruction in a King Air is worthless?:confused:

I completely disagree with that statement. What "recruiters" are you talking about? If a PIC so chooses to allow the individual in the right seat to be the sole manipulator of the controls, then the individual can log the time as PIC. This is not uncommon on "deadhead" or non pax legs. Likewise, if the PIC is an MEI, and is willing to sign the other pilot's logbook as dual, he can as well log this time a PIC. To call this "useless" time is incorrect.

I agree, the time, even if it can't be logged, is still not useless. I learned a ton when I rode right-seat in a charter. I didn't log the live legs, only dead-heads, which were few and far between. People really underestimate the value of just being exposed to these operations, regardless if it's "loggable" or not. And for those in these situations, ask questions, watch, learn!!!!!

Now as a side-note, make sure you have a high-alt endorsement to log your PIC time, as a Be20 requires one.

Job's not bad...getting turbine pic which is better than i could say a year ago.

As for the king air time, Like everyone is saying only way to log right seat time in a king air would be if the operator does not have the autopilot in lieu of sic, which is typically only new operators. We do have a time building program in the Beech 99 (close enough to a king air) but its pretty expensive. You go through training and get a SIC 135 ride. You can log the SIC time while you fly the 135 legs due to 61.51 (F) (2). We have a 135 opspec for reduced takeoff minimums which can only be used with an SIC onboard and therefore you can log it.

We have an open insurance policy and our last SIC was hired with less than 1000 hours. Typically we need 1500+ for ARG/US and we've brought up a few with no prior jet time.

Not sure I'd agree with that, either. You can also log time in the right seat when acting as a required crewmember (such as safety pilot)...and Autopilot-In-Lieu-Of-SIC is definitely something that can be approved/issued to new 135 certificates.

-mini

Recruiters as in someone that's going to hire you at an airline or a flight department. It doesn't matter what you think about dual given in a king air, it matters what they think. But I guess you are right even under dual given, experience is experience.

I'll tell you it is pretty hard to find anyone to fly with to get KA time...I have cast every net that I know to try and get time...but still nothing. I am in the Chicago area and I see KA's everywhere, but no one is willing to let even a guy with a couple thousand hours fly with them. It continues to be a tough situation for people trying to move up to the next step. My guess is to sit tight, keep instructing and wait until a lot of those KA guys start getting gobbled up by the regionals. It's an uphill battle...keep the faith Quinny

Ummmm? That would be a major downgrade for every KA driver I know:)

Our company requires 2 pilots on both the Ultra and King Air 200. When I was building time, I flew right seat on a KA 90 when the company required another pilot. It was part 91, I was l able to log the time. (That was 12 years ago, but I dont think much has changed) In response to your question, you may have to CFI a little more, or ride along on some freight gig and log the dead head legs as I did, and before you know it, you will be past the 1200 hours and ready to move on!! I wish you the best! All of us had to pay the price at some point...

what do ya think this post is all about?? LOL

I don't work for a freight company, or charter company, or FBO. I'm just trying to find out if there are ANY operators in NE Ohio that would let a guy sit right seat.

Guys, please don't ready any more into this than that. I'm a CFII/MEI, i'm quite aware of what hours i'm legally allowed to log and what i can't. The post started off with a simple question, didn't need it to go into all of this.

Thanks.

I'm late to the party and wasn't going to comment but there seem to be some confusing statments. I agree the only way to log SIC time in a king air is with a 135 operator carrying passengers the regulations don't specify scheduled or unscheduled though. The regulations specify by the use of the Exemption for autopilot in Lieu of an SIC. If the 135 operator does not have this exemption (which there are a few that I can think of off the top of my head) then Legally a SIC is REQUIRED for the 135 legs thus an SIC can log SIC time!

THis goes for Single engine turbines as well operated under 135. See excerpt below:

http://rgl.faa.gov/icons/expand.gifSec. 135.101

http://rgl.faa.gov/icons/collapse.gifSec. 135.101

Subpart B--Flight Operations

Sec. 135.101

Second in command required under IFR.

Except as provided in Sec. 135.105, no person may operate an aircraft carrying passengers under IFR unless there is a second in command in the aircraft.

unless you have 135.105

Sec. 135.105

Exception to second in command requirement: Approval for use of autopilot system.

(a) Except as provided in Secs. 135.99 and 135.111, unless two pilots are required by this chapter for operations under VFR, a person may operate an aircraft without a second in command, if it is equipped with an operative approved autopilot system and the use of that system is authorized by appropriate operations specifications. No certificate holder may use any person, nor may any person serve, as a pilot in command under this section of an aircraft operated in a commuter operation as defined in part 119 of this chapter unless that person has at least 100 hours pilot in command flight time in the make and model of aircraft to be flown and has met all other applicable requirements of this part.
(b) The certificate holder may apply for an amendment of its operations specifications to authorize the use of an autopilot system in place of a second in command.
(c) The Administrator issues an amendment to the operations specifications authorizing the use of an autopilot system, in place of a second in command, if--
(1) The autopilot is capable of operating the aircraft controls to maintain flight and maneuver it about the three axes; and
(2) The certificate holder shows, to the satisfaction of the Administrator, that operations using the autopilot system can be conducted safely and in compliance with this part.
The amendment contains any conditions or limitations on the use of the autopilot system that the Administrator determines are needed in the interest of safety.

ANy further questions consult the regs... knowledge is power:cool:

Hey Quinny,

Not sure if you've tried this or not but... try heading down to your local fbo's in and around your area to contact all your local 135 operators to see if they would be willing to hire you on either VFR or have you on an emergency contact list to sit right seat on two person 135 ops (PIC 91, or SIC 135) when they need someone in a pinch, otherwise network, network, network... or be willing to relocate.

Good luck!

I fly right seat in the King Air C90 and B200 for a part 135 op. I log PIC on the part 91 legs and SIC on the part 135 legs. I had to have an SIC checkride to be able to log SIC. High Performance and High Altitude endorsements for PIC.

[technical hat]Actually, you didn't "need" those to log the PIC time. Only to act as PIC on those flights. But as sole manipulator of the flight controls in an aircraft for which you are rated (or have privileges), you can log that time as PIC without those endorsements. Actually, if you are the one doing the flying on the 135 legs, you log that as PIC, too.[/technical hat]

[practical hat]...but a good idea to knock them out.[/practical hat]

-mini

Don't let ANYONE tell you what you can't do. I was flying a King Air single-pilot before I had 1000 hours. I had plenty of detractors too, but I am an ambitious guy and enjoy proving people wrong. Set your sites high and work your butt off to get there. I think most people on here are jaded due to there bad luck/choices. Keep looking... there are King Air guys that will help you get some King Air time with your experience. I do it to for guys every chance I get.

Why would anyone allow a less than 1000 hour pilot to fly their King Air? What was your circumstance?

If all goes as planned I'm going to be flying a 441 with way less than a 1000 hours. Granted I'm not going to be single pilot, but I will still be flying regardless.

That is a great deal too! What are your circumstances that allow such a rare opportunity?

I'm thinking that minimumwage4 might be considering the insurance requirements when he asks who in their right mind who allow a fairly inexperienced pilot to fly a King Air - SINGLE PILOT!

You mention that you won't be flying the 441 single pilot, and maybe you don't have much experience at this time in that regime, but I'm pretty sure that you will see a BIG difference once you do delve into the complex aircraft, single pilot world.

Good luck Cruz and enjoy the experience!

USMCFLYR

My circumstance is one of luck. I have less than 500TT, but my instructor was asked to do contract flying for an older gentleman who doesn't feel comfortable flying the plane by himself. (He is 80) The flights are all operated under PT.91 and we will share the workload with the other pilot. After spending 10 years at the regionals I'm hoping my instructor can run it like we are a crew and help teach me CRM in a much more complex aircraft. Should be fun and I'm not expecting much pay maybe at best 50 bucks a day, but it is something and if not its free multi hours in a nice airplane.

no one "allowed" me to. I allowed them the use of my highly-skilled services... for a small fortune of course =)