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Tailwheel Endorsement

Old 04-08-2023, 11:59 AM
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Does anybody know an instructor that can provide a tail wheel endorsement with their own airplane? or have access to an airplane for a reasonable price in the South Florida area?
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Old 04-08-2023, 02:35 PM
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Patty Wagstaff is in St. Augustine. You didn't say what you meant by "good price," but there are several ways to look at it, and what you hope to get out of that tailwheel endorsement changes how you look at it. If you're just after an endorsement in your logbook, then perhaps it's just cost. If you're looking to put that tailwheel endorsement to work or to work it, then perhaps cost isn't the what constitutes a good price...but proficiency and your end skill level is.

If you're looking for price, something like miamifly might be your ticket. Tailwheel adventures in Orlando will do it for about two grand or so. Sarasota Aero does it in a Champ. Right Rudder in Inverness has a PA-11 cub. Old Farts Fly is not taking students right at the moment, but offers conventional gear training near Destin.
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Old 04-08-2023, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptainBigote View Post
Does anybody know an instructor that can provide a tail wheel endorsement with their own airplane? or have access to an airplane for a reasonable price in the South Florida area?
Join the South Florida Pilots group on Facebook
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Old 04-09-2023, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
Patty Wagstaff is in St. Augustine. You didn't say what you meant by "good price," but there are several ways to look at it, and what you hope to get out of that tailwheel endorsement changes how you look at it. If you're just after an endorsement in your logbook, then perhaps it's just cost. If you're looking to put that tailwheel endorsement to work or to work it, then perhaps cost isn't the what constitutes a good price...but proficiency and your end skill level is.


If you're looking for price, something like miamifly might be your ticket. Tailwheel adventures in Orlando will do it for about two grand or so. Sarasota Aero does it in a Champ. Right Rudder in Inverness has a PA-11 cub. Old Farts Fly is not taking students right at the moment, but offers conventional gear training near Destin.
Reasonably priced meaning at the end of the day it is an endorsement, and not an actual add on rating. Some operations / instructors charge it as such. What youíre saying makes complete sense though it depends what your looking for; Iím just looking for something that offers the best of both worlds.

Thanks for your reply
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Old 04-09-2023, 06:58 AM
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The thing is that many places will give you the training for the endorsement, typically in ten hours or so; much of it revolves around little more than taxi, takeoff and landing, of course, and the essence of it comes down to your own comfort level and how fast you pick it up. Conventional gear is called that for a reason; it's not rocket science. The places that give you the endorsement, however, often won't rent the airplane for you to fly solo, even in a cub or decathalon. They're willing to say you got just enough training to be dangerous and to give you the endorsement, but not willing enough, in many cases, to let you fly their airplane once you have the endorsement. That unwillingness shouldn't go unnoticed.

I don't have an endorsement. I have a lot of years flying conventional gear airplanes, but don't have an endorsement to show for it. I learned to fly in a J-3 cub, though it's not where I got my initial training. I got my private, to start, in a tricycle-gear airplane, but I learned to fly in the cub. If you understand that, you'l understand where I'm coming from, here.

That thing we all told our students when they got their first certificate or rating, and the next and the next, that it wasn't anything more than a "license to learn," applies with that just-an-endorsement. Whether you actually have that signature in a logbook somewhere or not, it doesn't make the airplane respect you any more or less. I gave a flight review a few years ago to an individual who was flying about a thousand hours a year in conventional gear airplanes; low ceilings, bad weather, short one-way strips with just enough wingtip clearance to takeoff or land, sometimes 50-100 landings a day, and loaded to the gills on every trip. Mountains, etc. We borrowed a Cessna 180 and started out with a few landings. On one of the first ones, I had to take the airplane because he lost it and headed for the weeds. He was a far sharper guy than I'll ever be, so it's no indictment on him, but a worthwhile footnote for those who read in the margins, to say that it doesn't matter how many hours one puts in them. They're still more than happy to eat your lunch. Even if it's just an endorsement.

There's an old saying about the cub, which is as benign and unassuming, and humble (and fun) an airplane as they come. In response to "it's just a cub," one will always hear, "that's right. It will just barely kill you."

I'm not being dismissive of the desire for economy, but you're right, it's not a type rating. It's just an endorsement. And perhaps just a cub, or just an aeronca or cessna. There's nothing magic about it. Probably not worth putting on a resume. Mine doesn't reflect conventional gear at all. It's something a lot of people do for a little fun, a little satisfaction, and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I encourage and commend people for taking the time and initiative to go get some training that they aren't required to get. Where ever you go and whatever you end up doing the training in, it won't hurt you. It can only benefit. That said, I hope to whisper loud enough from the shadows to say that while it's not a type rating, take it as seriously. The worst landing I ever had came on a mountain strip in strong winds amid some pine trees, in an Air Tractor and there was a moment when I had serious reservations about where I'd be that night, after a bounce that put me out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas all in the same coincidental moment, and just enough thrust to save my day, but not enough of anything else to let me use it because torque vs. low energy can end badly, especially when the rudder runs out of juice to fight it. Humbling: every day a student pilot. I learned to fly in the cub, a long time ago now but I'm still learning. Still don't have that endorsement, either. But I'm working on it.

Get the endorsement, and have fun doing it. Seriously. Get some aerobatic training too, Seaplane, if you get a chance. That old saw about the most fun you can have with clothes on? That's on floats. It should be fun, too. It's just an endorsement, probably done just in a cub, or just in a champ or just in a citabria, etc. It's just a little fun. Seriously.

That worst landing was recent, just a few years ago. I'm hoping it stays the worst. I learned something. I hope I'm not done learning. In my opinion, I'm not ready for an endorsement, yet. One day, I hope to be. Take it for what it's worth.
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Old 04-09-2023, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
The thing is that many places will give you the training for the endorsement, typically in ten hours or so; much of it revolves around little more than taxi, takeoff and landing, of course, and the essence of it comes down to your own comfort level and how fast you pick it up. Conventional gear is called that for a reason; it's not rocket science. The places that give you the endorsement, however, often won't rent the airplane for you to fly solo, even in a cub or decathalon. They're willing to say you got just enough training to be dangerous and to give you the endorsement, but not willing enough, in many cases, to let you fly their airplane once you have the endorsement. That unwillingness shouldn't go unnoticed.

I don't have an endorsement. I have a lot of years flying conventional gear airplanes, but don't have an endorsement to show for it. I learned to fly in a J-3 cub, though it's not where I got my initial training. I got my private, to start, in a tricycle-gear airplane, but I learned to fly in the cub. If you understand that, you'l understand where I'm coming from, here.

That thing we all told our students when they got their first certificate or rating, and the next and the next, that it wasn't anything more than a "license to learn," applies with that just-an-endorsement. Whether you actually have that signature in a logbook somewhere or not, it doesn't make the airplane respect you any more or less. I gave a flight review a few years ago to an individual who was flying about a thousand hours a year in conventional gear airplanes; low ceilings, bad weather, short one-way strips with just enough wingtip clearance to takeoff or land, sometimes 50-100 landings a day, and loaded to the gills on every trip. Mountains, etc. We borrowed a Cessna 180 and started out with a few landings. On one of the first ones, I had to take the airplane because he lost it and headed for the weeds. He was a far sharper guy than I'll ever be, so it's no indictment on him, but a worthwhile footnote for those who read in the margins, to say that it doesn't matter how many hours one puts in them. They're still more than happy to eat your lunch. Even if it's just an endorsement.

There's an old saying about the cub, which is as benign and unassuming, and humble (and fun) an airplane as they come. In response to "it's just a cub," one will always hear, "that's right. It will just barely kill you."

I'm not being dismissive of the desire for economy, but you're right, it's not a type rating. It's just an endorsement. And perhaps just a cub, or just an aeronca or cessna. There's nothing magic about it. Probably not worth putting on a resume. Mine doesn't reflect conventional gear at all. It's something a lot of people do for a little fun, a little satisfaction, and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I encourage and commend people for taking the time and initiative to go get some training that they aren't required to get. Where ever you go and whatever you end up doing the training in, it won't hurt you. It can only benefit. That said, I hope to whisper loud enough from the shadows to say that while it's not a type rating, take it as seriously. The worst landing I ever had came on a mountain strip in strong winds amid some pine trees, in an Air Tractor and there was a moment when I had serious reservations about where I'd be that night, after a bounce that put me out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas all in the same coincidental moment, and just enough thrust to save my day, but not enough of anything else to let me use it because torque vs. low energy can end badly, especially when the rudder runs out of juice to fight it. Humbling: every day a student pilot. I learned to fly in the cub, a long time ago now but I'm still learning. Still don't have that endorsement, either. But I'm working on it.

Get the endorsement, and have fun doing it. Seriously. Get some aerobatic training too, Seaplane, if you get a chance. That old saw about the most fun you can have with clothes on? That's on floats. It should be fun, too. It's just an endorsement, probably done just in a cub, or just in a champ or just in a citabria, etc. It's just a little fun. Seriously.

That worst landing was recent, just a few years ago. I'm hoping it stays the worst. I learned something. I hope I'm not done learning. In my opinion, I'm not ready for an endorsement, yet. One day, I hope to be. Take it for what it's worth.
Oh absolutely itís definitely an endorsement that furthers your skill level, and keeps you motivated to do better. My comments on cost all boils down to what you said about it saying it shouldnít cost the same as an SIC type rating more or less. My goal for it ultimately is to better my stick and rudder skills, and align me towards eventually acquiring a tailwheel aircraft later down the road. I donít expect to master the beast because when you let your guard down itíll eat your lunch, but more so continue my quest on being a more proficient pilot.

Thanks again for your wise words. They are greatly appreciated!
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Old 04-09-2023, 09:01 AM
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[QUOTE=I don't have an endorsement. I have a lot of years flying conventional gear airplanes, but don't have an endorsement to show for it. = Quote

You probably know this, but no endorsement is required if you logged PIC time in a tailwheel aircraft prior to April 15, 1991.
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Old 04-09-2023, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by crbnftprnt View Post
[

You probably know this, but no endorsement is required if you logged PIC time in a tailwheel aircraft prior to April 15, 1991.
Really? You don't say. Well, blow me down with a feather. That's neat.
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