A320fan

I haven't made it in music YET Explains why I'm here.

Hope you guys don't mind a low-timer in training asking for a little advice. Yes, I would love to be able to fly to eat and pay my rent, but I refuse to add to this whole RJ plague that seems to be taking over our industry. I have absolutely no problem staying away from 121 until I can get hired by a major, and would actually rather do it that way (instructing, 135, cargo, you know the thing). The only problem is it seems like a big catch-22 with getting hired by ANYONE, not just majors. Everyone wants huge amounts of multi time, 135 time, 121 time, turbine pic time, and so on. And it also seems like if I were to take one of these jobs that would get me that kind of time, I'm "destroying our profession" as some of you so lovingly say. And I'm not talking regionals (look under Part 91/low time to see what I mean).

So, to put it basic for everyone, WHAT DO I DO?? I want this profession preserved just as much as all of you do, so any and all suggestions for building some good time without making Mr. Cohen 30 cents richer are welcome. Thanks everyone.

Cubdriver

Mod note: moved from Regionals for better attention.

2StgTurbine

Why does everyone over look instructing? It has been the standard way of building time for a while. Instead of assuming your training will end with your commercial, continue and get your CFI, CFI-I, and MEI. If you can afford to spend $30,000 to get to your commercial, you can afford the $5,000 for your CFIs. Get hired by a flight school, and instruct. In a year or two, you should have enough time to fly 135. I know it sucks because that means after 250 hours of doing slow flight and steep turns, you are going to have to watch other people do it for the next 1000 or more hours, but it will make you a better pilot. There is no shortcut to an airline and instead of wasting time trying to find it, focus on finding a flight school that will hire you once you complete your training.

Of course, with the 1500 hour rule, students will dry up and it will be nearly impossible to build time instructing. Many CFIs trying to build time will get pushed out of the industry and will have to realize they spent thousands of dollars for a career they cannot get into.

WalkOfShame

Well, first things first, finish your Commercial AMEL training and study hard so you don't fail any stage checks/checkrides in the process. Second, you'll have to do to exactly what you said in your post...Teach. Getting your CFI, CFII, and MEI is your first opportunity to start making money while flying. TREAT THIS VERY SERIOUSLY!! If you start thinking and acting like a professional now, it will show later on in your career.

Getting your MEI is a must to gain the multi time (and frankly, IMHO, make you a better multi pilot). There are other ways, but they are few and far between.... but you never know what could happen. If you can teach at the same place you're learning now I would try and stay there. If you can't, then start looking as soon as you start CFI training so that you can build contacts and network with people <---This is key to getting a job in all of aviation! You will probably spend 2-3 years teaching to get to 135 mins. Do what you need to do to make money, but try to build as much multi time as you can (at least 200 I would say). Once you're at 135 mins, start applying to cargo/charter companies. Try to find ones with a good company culture, aircraft that are maintained well, and in an area you like and can afford to live in. Ameriflight is a good example. Work your way up into ME turbine PIC aircraft and build your time there. You will need quite a bit of it. Then, depending on the industry and economy, when you reach the mins for the majors, start applying. Make sure that through out your entire career, you keep making contacts and networking as these people will help you later on when you apply for a major (and of course, return the favor and pay it forward by networking for someone else).

There is no quick way to do get to the majors, but honestly why would you want to get there quick? There are so many interesting and challenging flying jobs out there that will make you a better pilot before you get to the majors. Some other options besides cargo are:

Part 91/135 Charter or fractional
Corporate
Med Flight
Military

Don't be set on one specific path or you might lose out on other opportunities. Who knows, maybe you'll like a job so much you won't want to go to the majors.

Good Luck!

featheredprop

Not to spook you but since the Colgan accident failed check rides are a serious factor in hiring . At some places you will not even get an interview if you fail more than 2 . I personally believe some places probably overlook others with fewer . Keeping in mind the 1500 hour /121 law thats coming into effect down the road I would highly recommend becoming a CFI so you can build valuable hours quick . I personally do not think that CFI's are any better than others with the same amount of time but thats my opinion . ( before you cfi's start *****ing ... you do know there are cfi's out for quick paths to the airlines who dont enjoy their job and couldnt give 2 ****s about their students ... weve all had them or know of them ) Keep in mind I believe the CFI ride is the one that people fail most often followed by the instrument . Keep that in the back of your mind and strive for excellence and choose the schools you train at carefully . DO NOT WASTE your $ on those ATP CRJ courses . !! Good luck !

PS Walkofshame made a great point .... "Don't be set on one specific path or you might lose out on other opportunities. Who knows, maybe you'll like a job so much you won't want to go to the majors."

A320fan

I can actually attest to that. I have a friend whose a 1300+ hr CFI/II/MEI. He got hired by a small (as in 3 airplanes-small) cargo op where he makes up 1/12th of the staff. Does great flying, makes 60k + per year (its a salary, not an hourly rate), and flies into airports with 20-foot wide runways. And his favorite part: no time builders there. I guess my point is for everyone to stay open and just take it one step at a time.

Thanks much for the advice, everyone. New plan: instruct, then get a job at I Don't Know Airlines, followed by flying learjets for the We'll See What Happens Corporation.

WalkOfShame

Sounds like a good plan to me. Good luck and keep working hard!

mshunter

Sounds good. Just make sure you have a backup plan. Things always seem to get mucked up in aviation when things are rolling along in a good direction. Just look at pre-911. Things were good. The look at the hiring boom a few years back.

flywithjohn

Sounds like everyone else is saying the same thing, get your CFI/II with an MEI. You can get hired at any flight school as long as you bring in students and build time. I have also found that if you work ground ops for the corporate FBOs you can pick up some twin turbo time. Which you will need desperately at the majors....