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Northern States Aviation

Anyone know or have any information on NSA and how they operate, QOL, actual flight time, are they a good stepping stool, etc? They've been posting for several 172 pilot positions for aerial mapping.

Thanks in advance!

PM Me... I can give you all the good and bad of it...

NSA was a fun place to work once I got past a few nuances, but every company has those. The QOL is really up to the individual. You're on the road for 7-8 months straight living out of a suitcase. You're given a daily per dium in addition to salary to cover motel/food each day. I shared rooms/cars with the other guys and ended up stashing a good amount of cash during my time there. The boss tries to run with as little risk as possible, and maintenance on the planes is a high priority. The planes show their age, but they're not going to fall out of the sky. I got 600 hours during my season there. If you have any more questions let me know. I typed up a document a couple years ago for a guy that got hired there to give him the scoop on the whole operation, so if you want it, let me know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtoTUL (Post 1038798)

Thanks for the info! Did this lead into a job once you were done? If you don't mind, can you PM me the document? A buddy of mine are currently through the application process and were wanting info on them.

NSA was fun. The little risk thing was definitely true. I did about 400 hours my season, but the weather was bad. Some of the risk mitigating things that go on is that you will not build any night flight time while repositioning to the next assigned location, you must land at dusk which gets a little frustrating. Also, the boss isn't too keen on you flying IFR to your next location; if you have to because of unforecast weather enroute, so be it, but he doesn't like you filing to fly into known IFR...though honestly, at the time of year you will be working, it won't be an issue really since nearly every cloud is carrying ice at that time. You also have to call him with your flight plan and be released by him before you repo.

That being said, you will wind up using many skills you taught your students while being a cfi. You will learn how to fly extremely precisely, as following the gridlines for the photos is a lot like flying an ILS all day that punishes you for more than 5 degrees of bank or pitch, as well as speed, altitude, and deviation (.0024 of a mile left or right of center) restrictions. You will learn to multi-task. and most importantly you will fly with some of the coolest guys ever, and have lots of fun :) On bad weather days we all used to go out and look at local attractions, have a bbq, or whatever. It was easily one of the best times I've had building time. Oh, you will also learn to pee in a bottle and pack a lunch (usually taken from the hotel breakfast buffet) so you can stay up there for a while. With the extended range tanks I have been up there for 6 hours a pop before landing.

After this job I went on to drop skydivers, then I went to a regional, where I am now. It was a good time, great experience. Go for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildflyin (Post 1038934)

Oh, you will also learn to pee in a bottle.

Definitely the #1 thing I learned (at 9000ft in the middle of Denver Class B no less). What year did you fly?

I realize you change bases once in a while but how much X-C time do u get? Aren't you taking off and landing at the same airport most of the time or do you fly outside of a 50 mile radius so it can count toward the ATP X-C time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardedFlyer (Post 1038969)

You relocate to new projects constantly thru the season. Projects are on average a week's worth of flying (barring bad weather). Some are less than a day of flying, and sometimes you'll be on one project for a month or more. It's all luck of the draw.

As far as cross country time, you're generally going to be w/in 50nm when working on projects, but the bigger projects often require you hiking 30-40nm away to reach the furthest plans. In that case just find an airport to refuel at that's over 50nm. Same idea when looking at point to point x/c for meeting 135 min's, you can always gas up at a different airport than you left from. Beyond that, 99.9% of your relocation flights between projects will be well over 50nm. My first relocation I flew was from Batavia, NY to Denver, CO. After a week of dodging weather I landed in Erie County, CO with some 20-25hrs cross country, 3-4hrs actual, and a couple very legit instrument approaches. Quite a change from burning up the traffic pattern with students just a month earlier.

I flew for Desert Wind Air Service, which is very similar to Northern States. Both companies operate for Pictometry, and do the same kind of flying.

It is definitely a young mans job... on the road for 8 months out of the year, and bunking up with another pilot. It was a lot of fun, and a great learning experience. At DWAS we didn't have to get "released" by the boss before flying, and he didn't mind us ferrying at night or IFR. I built up 1000 hours in my two seasons there, and then went to ExpressJet.

The most fun for me was that when they wanted us to reposition, they would say "we need you in Charleston by Friday", and it would be a Monday in San Francisco. But they didnt care how I got there as long as it wasn't vastly out of the way, so I would visit friends in Arizona, then friends in Dallas, then make it to Charleston.

Over-all it was a good experience and I would recommend it to any low time pilot.

Wow, I was looking into a low time VFR 135 job in Saipan for 18 months but this looks much better. Unfortunately I just broke my right arm, will take 2 months of cast time to heal so I will have to wait for next season. Good luck to those of you who applied.

zildjian_zach, thanks for the info buddy.

I flew for NSA a few years back. I enjoyed it there, but I'm single and don't really have any ties anywhere. If the owner likes you, he's a great guy; A few people got fired during my time there. He's got his quirks, but just give him what he wants and you'll be fine. He was never on my ass, but he watched some other guys like a hawk.

The money is really good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildflyin (Post 1038934)

Also, the boss isn't too keen on you flying IFR to your next location

Really? He didn't do that with me. I got plenty of actual on repos. Hell, my whole trip from Pontiac, MI to whatever-town-it-was in Tennessee was in hard IFR. The big man never gave me a problem. Some other pilots (namely one of the people who got fired) he would only allow to fly VFR. There were a handful of us who were allowed to go IFR with a good brief and an "out."

Maybe he's changed his operation, though.

No, I'd say he's changed for the better. Ever since he got his medical back he's been WAY more laid back. I had lots of IFR this last season and nowhere near the 3rd degree during flight releases that I got when I was there a few years back.

Air America in Florida pays the best of the Pictometry vendors by a longshot. Newer 172R/S models, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zildjian_zach (Post 1038941)

Definitely the #1 thing I learned (at 9000ft in the middle of Denver Class B no less). What year did you fly?

I flew during the 2009-2010 season. He didn't have his medical then i don't think

I've included a lot of info here about what to expect at NSA should you get hired. For what it's worth, I looked up stats on my season of flying and came up with the following: Flew 600 hrs, 145 X-C (over 50nm), 12 actual instrument, 9 approaches (one to mins), and 196 landings. Point-to-point X-C was probably 400-500hrs as I tried to always land for fuel a different place than where I started that day.

This is a document I typed up a while back, so I just copied and pasted here. I know some of this info has already been addressed and I'm not trying to be redundant:

Quote:

OK, to start out, Nick is an engineer. He's very intelligent, but sometimes lacks common sense. In addition, he has been in an aircraft accident and suffered brain trauma. He's also a bit OCD. So if he makes decisions that make no sense, don't get upset about it. Offer a kind suggestion of how it may work better, and leave it at that.

He will seem overly protective of you and his airplanes. Just accept it and play along. It would probably be good to call him one or two times per week just to clue him in on how things are going or casually ask what to expect next. (don't be demanding, you're just letting him know you're working hard to keep him in business, and excited to find out what’s next) Also, don't hesitate to call and ask him anything regarding the work or the airplane. He wants to know everything that's going on. (if you're asking him about what you're supposed to do in a certain situation, give him a solution first and ask if that's right. You want to come across as responsible, just let him feel like he's part of the decision making too)

At some point you may hear rumors about how much he makes per hour for you to fly the lines. I honestly don’t know what that figure is, but I heard rumors when I was there. I let it get to me and I felt ripped off for the amount he was paying me. I had to accept that I had agreed to work for him for the amount he promised ($895 every 2 weesks + $95 or $110/day per dium). So since you’ve agreed to fly for him, decide now that whatever amount he’s decided to pay you this year is good enough.

When it comes time to move the airplane to a new location, he will want to "release" your flight. Just pretend that he's your flight instructor and he needs to know what conditions you'll be flying in and that you’ve planned the route. If you're flying though any IMC, be sure to tell him EXACTLY what the radar looks like, what the TAF is across the WHOLE area, what the METARS look like (including their trends), and ALL notams that would affect an approach (even if it's supposed to be VFR by the time you arrive). Also, it would be a good idea to print off the weather if you can in case questions arise after the flight and he doesn’t think you told him everything. This is one thing I learned the hard way early in the season, and Nick held on to it the rest of the season.

When I was there, we weren’t allowed to fly at night – period. I doubt that has changed.

If he has a "pet" employee, don't get at odds with him, or you will probably end up at odds with Nick. The season I worked there, he had a returning pilot that was a complete jerk. He would tattle tale to Nick about every little thing any pilot did wrong. This caused problems for every pilot.

The airplanes all show their age. None of them will fall out of the sky, but they might have things wrong that will be a nuisance. A few characteristics of the airplanes when I was there:
N65628 had a rough running engine and horrible radios;
N5485K had long-range tanks;
N5474K had an electrical problem that caused a fire – I’m pretty sure it was fixed with no further issues;
I believe 903NS only has a 150hp engine;
I’m pretty sure N64155 also has 150hp engine, but it seemed to be a pretty nice airplane; N64814 was decent – it had DME;
N902NS, N5496K, and 52250 were all junk;
N410FR was probably nicest in fleet – had GPS (appolo 55??)
N5296K was probably nicest next to FR. It had dual KX155 (flip-flop nav/coms) and old Loran that still worked well. Flew slightly crooked, but good, smooth engine. Also, good paint/interior

As far as what to take, I took a single large suitcase for all my clothes. Some pilots had two carry-on types. If I did it again, I’d probably try they two carry-on deal. I also had my laptop case and a backpack. (the backpack came in handy as my “flight case” and also to carry stuff when I went sight-seeing.) I started out the season with mostly winter clothes and a couple T-shirts/polos in case I ended up in a warm place. I would recommend investing in some good thermal underwear. Also, I had two coats – a zip-up hoody type thing and a lighter water-proof gortex jacket. If it were cold, I’d wear both; when only cool, I’d wear the hoody, and if only rainy, I’d wear the gortex. Also, make sure you have a good pair of gloves and a stocking cap. You will probably start up north in Wisconsin, Michigan, or New York.

Later in the season when spring rolled around, I shipped off my winter clothes to home and had my folks ship me more warm-weather clothes.

To save money, we would share motel rooms and cars. I learned to bargain with the motel people. Check around before you get to where you’re going (if you have time) and let them know there’s a group of you coming for a lengthy amount of time. I always used Enterprise to rent my car. If you can reserve the car online ahead of time (at least 36 hours for best price) and use Nick’s 10% discount number, you’ll get an unbeatable price. (also, the corporate number waves the under 25 fee if you fit that category)
I like my three meals per day, so I always tried to get a motel with some type of breakfast. I also got non-spoiling groceries such as bread, peanut butter, jelly, nuts, carrots, chips, etc. and I’d make a lunch for myself on the days I was flying through lunch. Most evening, I’d eat out. When I was in a place longer, I would get more groceries and try to fix my own food more to save money. One thing that was discussed was getting a small crockpot to slow-cook meals during the day while flying and have a cheap supper ready when you got back to the motel. I never did it, but it would certainly be something to try. With pinching my pennies the way I did, I was able to stash away about $14000 during the season.

I’ve talked about quite a few negative things in this. I’ve tried to think of every con to the job so you will be prepared. Overall, the job was very fun. But I had to decide to make it fun. The honest truth is that there will be frustrating things that happen and everyone will be complaining at times. (just like with any job) Just look at it as a vacation. Try to get out and see the sights wherever you are. You may be in some places that you will never get back to. Take a camera to get lots of pictures. Like I said in the post, NSA is overall a good company. Nick has his quirks, but I believe he really cares for his pilots.

I hope this has been helpful. Enjoy the season and let me know if you have any other questions.

I got 378 hours, some 6 hours actual, and about 3 good approaches. Had bad weather and maintenance issues. I was lowest in the fleet last year but that just means I was paid the highest per hour of flight :) I also got really good at bowling.

That write up was pretty accurate. If you have current questions about the place you can PM me.

the crockpot thing works...a friend of mine did that

How many pilots does NSA hire each season?

Usually how many are returning pilots from the previous season?

Do you have to shave?

Do you have to shave that's funny !! I hate to tell you but its going to be a little more difficult to find work with a beard at least at a major. I worked at a company that had a strict no beard policy. They say that it interferes with putting on your O2 mask. I know a 172 operation its not a factor but sooner or later, depending on where you want to go the beard is going to have to go !!!
Lots of beard/pager unfriendly places out there!!!

I sported a mighty fine beard most of my time flying there. Some of us like to take advantage of growing a beard before we don't have a choice later down the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkman62 (Post 1041599)

Lots of beard/pager unfriendly places out there!!!

Say what now?

So Jim, did you have fun back in 'Nam?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zildjian_zach (Post 1041785)

So Jim, did you have fun back in 'Nam?

Thought that was you. Nice avatar. How goes it?

Same old same old. Headed to the Cleve for training next week so I gotta enjoy the mild Seattle weather while I can.

So a coworker of mine and I are both in the application/interview process for NSA. He was supposed to have his 1 hour phone interview today and apparently got a work trip and completely forgot about it. His voicemail wasn't the most pleasant, as expected. Did he ruin his chances with NSA due to that? I know him well enough to know it was an honest mistake.
Any advice?

Best he can do is call and explain what happened. He definitely didn't help his chances though. If something like that happens on the road, you'll definitely hear about it... ask me how I know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zildjian_zach (Post 1043154)

Best he can do is call and explain what happened. He definitely didn't help his chances though. If something like that happens on the road, you'll definitely hear about it... ask me how I know.

Thanks! He did and had his phone interview today.

what kind of questions did he ask?

With all the different places to fly in what did you guys do about sectionals approaches etc. etc. Did you have to pay for your own?

We each had a company credit card. We would use it for charts and any other company-related supplies. If I was going to be going IFR, I'd get the enroute charts and plates for the area's I was flying through. I always got a sectional for the area I was mapping in, and if I was going on a long VFR crosscountry, I'd just get a WAC.

Nothing like going in and absolutely killing the chart case a smaller FBO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zildjian_zach (Post 1047506)

Nothing like going in and absolutely killing the chart case a smaller FBO.

if they even had what we needed...

Air Chart atlas'. He'd save a bunch of money using those. You buy it once and they update the charts with paper updates that you carry with you.

Do you get any sort of vacation time while working? Air America did 2 one week vacations and they flew you on their dime to anywhere in the lower 48 and gave you $500 for the week. Now I doubt every company does that, but some sort of time off would be nice.

Nope, no time off. I got three days off for Christmas, but I heard that that was the one and only year (2007) that he did that. You'll have plenty of unscheduled days off though, due to weather.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitragorz (Post 1058983)

Nope, no time off. I got three days off for Christmas, but I heard that that was the one and only year (2007) that he did that. You'll have plenty of unscheduled days off though, due to weather.

Wow that kinda sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruz5350 (Post 1058986)

Wow that kinda sucks.

For me, the pay made it worth it. After the season I was able to pay off my pickup, and had plenty of money left over to last me all summer without having to work a day.

Then I ran out of money, but that's another story!

But really, the pay definitely eases the pain.

Anyone know if these guys are still hiring for this season? Just sent in a copy of my resume a few days ago, and haven't heard anything.

Thanks

It might be a bit late. I have been going through the process for about 3 weeks now.

+1 on the money thing. I was able to save 11k while still having to pay rent back home and bills. Paid for my multi rating and I'm just about out of money now. Season ended in May.

Only time off is weather, being sick, or being "sick."

I think I saw a post on 350 not too long ago so there might still be time but it's getting close. I know he's hired at least a couple of people. Good news is that I think he has to replace nearly all his pilots from last season. Most found other jobs or are not coming back. I'd say at least 6 slots out of 11.