orbits2000

Hey fellow av8ors,
I'm very enthusiastic about becoming a smoke jumper contract pilot. I've been chatting with the folks at Bighorn in WY. I like them because of the aircraft and they have the contracts with the jumpbases that I'd love to work with. I've seen some post from 'Airhoss' and others but just joined the forum and don't have enough post to p.m. yet. I'd very much appreciate being able to talk with pilots with experience flying smokejumpers. I'm flying the Pilatus PC-12 now and have about 400 hours flying jumpers. I've also got a bunch of time on fire crews from a 20 person hand crew to a helicopter rappel crew. Thanks for any help in advance. Blue skies and tailwinds!

Airhoss

I flew for Bighorn back in the early 90's as a smokejumper pilot. I tried to PM you but it wouldn't let me as your post count must be to low. I'd be glad to answer any questions that I am able to answer.

I flew Casa 212's.

I was based in Fairbanks Alaska at Ft Wainwright Army Airfield. And extended to several lower 48 bases such as Redmond Oregon, Missoula Mt and Winthrop Washington.

The flying is great the sitting gets OLD!

Bighorn is an established company and overall is pretty good but get EVERYTHING in writing as what they tell you at the beginning of the season and what they actually try pull at the end of the season don't always match up. IE If you live on base in the provided Army quarters we'll pay for your housing..Right!

What specific questions can I help you with?

orbits2000

Nice to hear from you Airhoss-I appreciate your time and advice. I had questions a bit wide ranging and many, ie what it takes to get in, what kind of applicant is 'that successful' one,what training is like, what's the checkride like,is the pay reasonable, are you expected to work straight thru the season or can you get 1 or 2 days if you need 'em, as an FO-do you actually get to do some flying or are you more times than not just on the radios? How do they decide where you might be stationed-I know that's quite the list of 'rattle'-but any info would be great. My posts are low but I'll get that worked out for pm. Thanks tons.

Airhoss

OK here we go...

Right place at the right time pretty much. You are a bit shy on your hours but there is no minimum requirement to be an F/O. I had about 3000 hours and a good bit of Alaska time which they liked. I also had some decent multi time. AND I was OAS carded already with a low level wavier that I just happened to pick up from another job that required it. Back to number one though go up to Sheridan and meet Bob and Chris Eisele the owners of Bighorn Airways and let them know you are interested. It can't hurt.

All kinds, go meet Bob and Chris. You are on the right rack with your turbine time. But as I said your TT is kind of skinny and I've known a few guys to do it with your TT and even less. Your wild land firefighting background is going to be a real bonus.

When Bighorn hires you. You'll have to go through their training program which is pretty rudimentary, just a basic pt 135 style ground school. Some steep turns under the hood some stalls some bounce and goes stuff like that. Once you get out to your jumper base you'll have to take an OAS check ride. You'll get several training sessions first in dropping jumpers, and then in low level para cargo delivery. You'll also get some ground school on how to identify a fire IE the tail the head left flank right flank ETC and how to run the radios. Running the radios on a fire is a major cluster as you might have 3 or 4 freqs to keep track of all at once. Also at least in Alaska, the Smoke jumper airplane assumes overall command of the fire if there isn't a fire boss or a lead plane on scene so you'll need to get up to speed on air traffic control real quick as you might find yourself running the show, controlling the tankers putting them in a holding stack clearing them in hot getting heli-tack crews worked in taking asset requests stuff like that. It's a handful.

The first time I ever did it was the first time I ever did anything like that. I had three tankers and a helicopter to work in between multiple low level cargo passes. You are going to earn your money on a day like that.

It used to be great. As an F/O you'd generally earn about 20K on a 90 day season. That was 20 years ago. If you got extended you could almost double that. I hear captains are making about 50 to 60K for a season now days. It beats the hell out of the commuters.

A smoke jumper contract is 12 days on 2 days off you don't get to pick them. Contracts are either 90 or 120 days long. Don't plan on having any kind of a life during fire season your butt belongs to the USFS or the BLM.

It depends on your captain. I flew every other mission from take off to landing including all the on scene fire fighting when I was an F/O. Some guys are not cool about that. Some are and a lot it will depend on your skill level. A lot of guys will have the F/O's fly the non "tactical" portion of the mission and do all the low level firefighting stuff themselves.

When I was flying for Bighorn they had only one contract station and that was Fairbanks AK with the BLM. So your primary contract was out of Ft Wainwright AAF. However in AK you'll get out based depending on the fire activity. I spent time in Palmer, Ft Yukon, McGrath, Galena and a couple of other areas. Generally you'll get extended to the lower 48 later in the season. I have been based in Redmond Oregon, Missoula Montana, Winthrop Washington and La Grange Oregon.


The smoke jumper mission in AK is way more varied than most think, you could be fighting fires one day and hauling a level II crew to a remote airstrip the next. You can spend an 8 hour day doing a fire patrol and never drop a single jumper. You might find yourself doing a para cargo resupply on a project fire and spend most of your day dropping low level para cargo. I think my record was 44 individual cargo passes in one day. I fought a fire one morning and on the way back orbited at 17K over a glacier doing a radio relay for a rescue attempt on Mt McKinley. I've also responded to a car wreck on the Hall Rd where the nearest help was hours away. We parachuted a paramedic team onto the scene who stabilized the victims until a helicopter could respond.

I hope that helps and please remember that my info is almost twenty years old I'm sure some things have changed.

orbits2000

Wow-This is incredible and thorough-I can't thank you enough and it quite actually helps me be more focused and more oriented for sure. Avery very large Thank You.

Airhoss

orbits,

I'll say this without hesitation. Knowing what I do today and looking back I'd never have been an airline pilot. I would have stayed on as a smoke jumper or a lead pilot. I would have begged borrowed and stolen my way into the BLM or the USFS and been eligible for a full retirement in several years.

The flying is AWESOME the country you get to operate in is spectacular and the people are motivated positive individuals. Smoke jumpers are the special forces of fire fighting and you won't meet a more diverse, motivated, if not somewhat eccentric bunch of folks to work with. I knew guys who were aged from their early 20's to their late 60's and ranged from PHD and MD educated all the way to high school drop out loggers. There is nothing quite like rolling in on a steep ridge on a hot fire, your nostrils filled with thick white wood smoke, coming over the ridge at tree top level then diving down the slope at a 45 deg angle, bulls eyeing your package into a 200' clearing in between the trees knowing that you've got to do it 10 or 15 more times before you have to go home fuel up and do it again.

I flew my last season 19 years ago and I still miss it. However with a family to raise the 120 days on the road would be very tough. I plan on trying to going back to some contract flying once my kids are out of the house.

My strong recommendation is GO FOR IT BRO!

USMCFLYR

Good stuff Hoss. Thanks for sharing.
Sounds like a specific skillset required.
I'd sure have liked to have given it a go earlier in life

USMCFLYR

Airhoss

I think you would have loved it. The ONLY guy I've ever talked to who didn't absolutely love fire fighting was.........You guessed it..Mr. "I should have been a garbageman" Skyhigh!

SkyHigh

Yes I was a smokejumper pilot. It was fun of course however it is very hard to make a life out of it. Most who do the job are single people who rent. I personally can not see how to build a life of any value out of what smokejumper flying entails.

You are gone for literally 5 to 7 months in a row. Hotel to hotel. Hooch to hooch. 14 days on with 2 off for months on end. Smokejumper pilots commonly do not fly IFR nor do they fly that much at all. It was normal to get perhaps 200 hours out of a five month season. Needless to say it is not a career to build to the airlines or anywhere else for that matter.

I personally want a life. I saw the need to live in a home that you own with a family while building a career that is going to be worth something one day. Of the career smokejumper pilots I knew they did not live in a manner that I envied nor did they even seem to like it much themselves.

Years later I was able to help a former jumpship captain friend of mine to start completely over as a regional FO at 48 because he was so despondent over his transient life as a smokejumper pilot. Life at the regionals is bad so for this guy to bail on the left seat of a CASA for 18K per year and 8 years to upgrade with a smile on his face tells you something.

I personally never really cared about having "fun" as a pilot. I wanted a career to provide for a solid family life, provided a good living, stable home life and good benefits. Somkejumper flying commonly does not lead to all that. The flying was fun but does little to help build a life or future.

How was that Hoss !

Skyhigh

USMCFLYR

Hoss -

As you can tell from the first paragraph of his last post - if you don't have the same idea of the Amercian dream as him, then you are a lost and wandering soul. Everyone must have the same vision of life and future or it just doesn't work. If only we were all so blessed

USMCFLYR