ATP King Air 350 Dual Given
 

Hey guys, friendly question. Can't find a clear answer under the regs. I'm a CFI CFII MEI with a new opportunity right seat in a BE350 with a MEI ATP. I have a High Altitude, High Perf, Complex endorsements. What time, dual given, SIC anything may be logged? This is a part 91 operation. I am going to be given instruction on emergency ops, single engine and take offs and landings. Please inform the uninformed. Thanks

If the ATP you're flying with agrees, he can give you instruction on each flight in the airplane and you can log it as dual received. That's your only logging option until you get a type rating in the 350. An SIC is not required for your operation, so can't log SIC; until you have a type, you can't be PIC, so that eliminates PIC and dual given.

So this time may be credited towards total duration and time towards an additional rating such as a type rating is my understanding.

yes, it would be total time and dual received if the ATP your flying with signs your book each time - just like when you were doing initial flight training before you had a ASEL or AMEL in each class of airplane.

Sorry, but no. An ATP can only instruct when under the training program of a Part 121, 135, or 142 certificate holder.

An ATP rated pilot can give instruction in “air transportation service”.

Part 1.1 defines Air Transportation as “interstate, overseas, or foreign air transportation or the transportation of mail by aircraft”.

With that said, an ATP rated pilot can give instruction in Part 121 and Part 135 operations but not part 91 operations. The instruction can be in any aircraft on the certificate holders list; it doesn’t have to be just aircraft requiring a type rating.

However, you're going to ignore this fact and log it any ways. So, disregard and press on.

The OP stated that the ATP had his MEI. So yes, he could log dual received under part 91. As to how it would look in an interview to show up with several hundred hours of dual given in this situation, that's a different matter.

You are correct. I missed the MEI part.

Take the time and go to the FSDO and get an SIC type when your training is done. Its free and you just have to show the training records along with an 8710. The FAA may not require it but many ICAO countries do.

An SIC type in a single pilot airplane? That's a new one to me. Even if you were typed in an airplane that could be flown SP with the limitation that you needed another pilot, you don't need the other pilot to hold a type.

I'd love to see anyone with a King Air type with an SIC limitation on it if you know of one.

Not a kingair but i did it in a citation (single pilot ac) in order to be legal to fly international.

I would just recommend keeping track of your King Air time separately. You could potentially use that experience to get a King Air job down the road.

None of Citation 500 series airplanes were certified single pilot. All were certified with a minimum of 2 crew.

A waiver to the 2 crew limitation to operate single pilot can be granted if you do the correct training and pass two separate checkrides.

The Citation CJ series airplanes were certified with a minimum of 1 crew.

Does the PICs type require a Copilot? About half the typed pilots I have flown the 350 with don't have a single pilot type. Single pilot types cost more money and is something else you may fail. Some pilots refuse them so their employers don't have the option of laying off the copilot. If your required by his license you can log SIC. If not, the ATP must sign your logbook as dual given as previously stated.

What about the 501 and 551? Both are single pilot and require a 500 type rating.

Can you quote a reg for this? I have given SIC endorsements in the 500, and discussed it with a FSDO type rating examiner. There have been no problems with anyone's SIC type rating. This was all pt 91. I would like to see some reg that says it can only be 121/135.

In addition, I received all of my training for the type rating from another ATP, then did the check ride at the FSDO in the plane. All of this was pt 91, not under a training program, and signed off on by the FAA, not an independent pilot examiner.

If the PIC is an MEI... the ATP really doesn't matter.

Like a previous poster said... it is good to log it for another King Air job but I would be careful using it elsewhere. I wouldn't hire someone who used 100 hours of dual received with a hokey explanation to beef up their resume.

My original type in the 350 required an SIC, a year later and another checkride I had the restriction removed. I had the choice of doing a single pilot type or with a copilot, I felt the type ride would be easier, the first time, with a copilot. The company I am at now, we all are single pilot typed, but always fly with two pilots. I don't think our time is legally loggable in our case. I don't think any of us are MEI's, being part 91, no ops specs to require it.

If the original type ride required you to have an SIC what are the requirements of the SIC? 61.55 cover it?