Where are you doing your CFI training at? Have you thought about enrolling in a CFI program like American Flyers? Reason that I ask is because I started working on CFI stuff at a small FBO and was struggling like heck to be good at it. The training was terrible and the instructor to whom I was assigned was outright incompetent. I didn't think that I would ever become a CFI and definitely gave up for a while. After I was done moaning about my plight I decided to go to Flyers in Pompano Beach, FL, because of the good things that I heard about their program there. The ground instructor, Patrick Connell, that they have there is an outstanding teacher and all the practice that you will have in speaking in front of your classmates may help you get over your fear of teaching...at least it worked for me.

No, no jab at you...only the ones that somehow were lucky enough to get hired at the airlines I worked at because they new the owner or slept with a management type...The stories I could tell!

I bet...ha!

El, Pilot it is my opinion that every aspiring professional pilot in your position in this day and age is given the same rules to the game to play. Complaining about how its not fair doesn't help you one bit. You've been doing this for only 3 years. There are tons of pilots on this board who wish after three years of flying they were fortunate enough to be even working on their CFI. I didn't get my first full time flying gig until 7 years of flying.

Patience friend. If you can't handle CFI training, tell me how that that 135 freight gig is going to be any easier? The solutions to situations you'll face there are ones that are not found in any book and often you'll find yourself between a rock and a hard place.

Small FBO. I'm practicing on my own at home first then when confident enough I'll go with a CFI. I don't like the 141 classroom style.

You may not like the 141 classroom style, but many times you need to get out of your comfort zone to advance, especially if what you're currently doing isn't working for you.

Additionally, the fact that you think 135 cargo is for entry level pilots and that 1200 hours magically makes you qualified to do so shows me just how much you have to learn yet.

Tough Love
 

El pilot,

Aviation is an extrovert's game and take that from an introvert. You MUST get out and interact with others skillfully and with confidence. In your career, you will have to lead others, the prequisite for which is listening and following well. You will have to speak to customers and the public; attend mass briefings and classes and participate in them; and finally, as a captain, you will instruct, critique and mentor younger pilots. Finally, you will have crew dinners, cocktails and social events. I have, in 40 years, learned more about flying in those settings than sitting at computer screen. As a teenager, I worked as a line boy at the local airport, listening to and asking airline pilots taught me lessons about flying I use today. Networking is ALL about presenting yourself well AND offering something of value. Being a CFI is the start.

The advice to attend a quality CFI school is one you should take to heart.

Thanks, I see your point. Which is why I am think I am better off doing programming and web development. The fact I can make a decent living working for a FedEx Feeder motivates me though. Maybe even keep flying a second job.

El pilot,

Don't give up, you can easily overcome your shyness, introversion or whatever you wish to call it. It takes some effort, commitment and desire. Try a Toastmasters club, they're great at this; consider the FAR 141 school or anything to get out of your comfort zone. AF pilot training is about nothing if not getting outside of your somfort, being scared or challenged and overcoming it.

GF

If Flyers or any other CFI program isn't an option for him, then may I suggest that he actually get out and immerse himself in a teaching environment to break his shyness? There are many volunteer teaching programs within communities that are constantly seeking out volunteers to teach basic English, math and so forth. One of my personal projects to see whether I had any capacity for teaching was to sign up for a GED prep course for older students. It was one of the best things that I could have done, gave me a boatload of motivation to tackle CFI coursework at a time that I had zero, and may serve him well in convincing his examiner or potential first employer to favor/hire him if he has some previous teaching experience.

Another thing that he could do is to sit in during his mother's classes if she doesn't have any constraints in permitting that. Observe how she teaches, what techniques she employs and how her body-language and demeanor strongly affect student reactions.

I agree that giving up is not the answer. Anyone can teach if they want to do so strongly enough, but first they must believe that they can do so, and that's where it all starts even from the first time that someone climbs into an airplane to learn to fly.

To be Honest non of my previous instructors gave me much ground. It was all just self study and flying. The thing with the AF course is, I don't want to put myself out there from the get go. I want to build my confidence very slowy one on one. I don't plan to be a ground instructor why do you need to teach in front of a class?

Teaching outside the cockpit is just as important as inside. By the way, All ATPs has a good CFI program too. And if you get hired there, most of your time will be flying Multi.

It's not about being a ground instructor, it's having the confidence to do so. Yes, a line pilot may not need to be one, BUT, neither you, nor I, know where a career will take you. I intended to be a line airline pilot, I wound up being an instructor, an examiner, a commander during wars and now present my company's products in front of buyers. Not one of those outcomes was planned when i was your age. The more tools you have, the greater your opportunities. Luck is about preparation.

GF

It makes sense. But not everybody likes being on the spotlight. Aviation has many avenues, not just airline.

It would be a la cheap for me to go FBO route. But ATP is good, as you mentioned. They hire their graduates I think.

I think ATPs would be a good route for you! Do well and be a team player and I bet they will hire you.....you will have to do the work to prove yourself tho! and you CAN do that!
Go to your local field and ask the owner or someone well respected(may or may not be one and the same! lol) to help you with mentoring or finding a mentor. Usually a couple of old willing pilots around for that.
It is and will continue to be an awesome career with many different avenues.....
You can do it, just don't expect it overnight.
Good Luck

That's not what I said. See heavydriver's post. The point was the reason of "don't want to instruct" simply isn't valid for a career that essentially requires you to instruct. I didn't say whether or not it would make you a good airline pilot. If one chooses to be an FO their entire career they could be a fine pilot, but that's generally not the way it usually works and people usually have aspirations of eventually getting to the right seat. Whether or not they start instructing sooner or later may be a little more debatable or arguable, I'm not saying someone needs to have an CFI to become an ATP at all, but if one thinks they are not going to have to teach as an airline pilot, they need to sit down and research more about their chosen career path.

I did my CFII/MEI add on last Jan. they said they are only hiring out of the 150/90 day fast tracks. So if he already has is licenses it may not end up with a job at ATP. Unless he had 100 or so hours in a seminole prior to ATP.

El Pilot,

You may not realize this now, but single pilot flying in small airplanes in threatening environments (ice, night, high winds, battling fatigue) is MUCH more difficult than multi pilot 121 or 135 ops. When I was a 200 hour commercial pilot I knew nothing. Sure, I could fly an airplane safely, but all I knew was the training environment. You absolutely do not have to CFI as others have said. BUT, you need to somehow fine tune your limited flying skills and gain experience in more controlled environments before you can safely fly freight in small airplanes. As a former CFI I can tell you that no one cares if you are goofy or a little shy, they just want to understand what you are talking about and feel like they are learning something useful. My advice? Man up and get your CFI then teach primary students for a while. Then, once comfortable, get your CFII and get comfortable with other people trying to stall your airplane in the clouds. Then, once comfortable with that, get your MEI and watch people try to hit the wrong rudder near VMC. You'll soon realize how little you actually knew before you started teaching. Chances are you'll get over your shyness along the way pretty quickly. Probably about the time your first student pukes or when you cut the back of your first solo's T-shirt after he or she solos. Good luck

El,

135 freight isn't entry level as a job goes, but would be great exposure for some to experience from the right seat. When I was in it, I took many folks for "rides" on my freight runs, both for the experience, and usually they bought me dinner too!! I know a few that have since gotten airline and other 135 jobs.

With any career, you need to earn your experience. Electricians and other skilled trades do apprenticeships. I really wish aviation had this, because honestly a 4yr degree doesn't cut it IMO. You have to have that real world experience to offer, and know where you are lacking. Until you fly to earn a paycheck, you're just ignorant of what it takes(and its not to flame you, it's just the way it is for everyone).

So if you can, take on the CFI the best you can, teach the best YOU can. Honestly, time to separate from mom if she can only tell you what you are doing wrong, and not helping you. I don't know if its been said here, but you will learn just as much or more as a CFI than you did up until the point you started teaching in the real world!

I could go on and on, but my last piece of advice is this.....

Whatever you do, whatever your job or skill level, always challenge yourself to perform better. No one is perfect, but we can all strive for that goal, and let it drive you.

Best of luck.

It is an entry level job because the market has largely preferred the cheapest instruction.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/19/19bc...e95bc1a588.jpg

Or be a people person flying people around the world, or be a people person flying with a captain. Wrong profession dude.

I have to disagree. He just has to find the right job. I flew pipeline patrol and had very little interaction with anyone.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but he's looking for a Career, I don't think pipelines going to put food on the table. (Not that most aviation jobs do.) :rolleyes:

Pipeline flying actually pays pretty well compared to other "entry level" jobs. Although I have found that even pipeline jobs are hard to come by with low time. A pretty big public utility flight department I know pilots from have several 182s and they pay their full time skyline drivers over 50k a year.

It pays decent money depending on who you work for, but it would take a special kind of person to make a career of it. It's all daytime vfr with no way to upgrade.

I would be content making enough to pay
Rent, and save a little. I know there are jobs
Out there that pay 40k-50k which should be
Enough.

Who do I send my resume to?

El Pilot, I've noticed that your mom is hurting your confidence. I might be a bad word of your choosing for saying this, but maybe it's time to man up and move out of your parents house, seems like you're old enough.

I'm a regional F/O and at first my mom didn't support my career ambitions, but the fact I wasn't living at home I was able to tell her "Mom, I love ya, but I'm going to do this with or without your support." It was the end of that.

Get a cheap room to rent and just focus on flight instructing, and STAY SINGLE!!!! Last thing you need is another person that might be detrimental to your career aspirations.

The guy you find and network with. There are no free lunches in this business.

'Found' you, didn't I? ;)

Sorta I don't work at that airport anymore. Its one of those I refueled their planes two years ago deals.

Well, no one can make you do this.

No one can do this for you.

Everything in life is hard. "If it weren't hard, everyone would do it. It's the HARD that makes it GREAT."

Sounds like you don't like people or interacting with them and you want a career where you are on your own. FYI, you can't do this as a career without other people. In fact you NEED other people, and thinking you don't is plain dangerous.

Based on what you said, I wouldn't fly with you. Bad attitude, no work ethic, don't like people, thinking you deserve something you haven't earned, (entitled), ect... That's what a potential employer hears and doesn't like.

I think you are better suited for air traffic control. But you will still have to work with people.

Based on the way you are as a person right now, you will have a very difficult time making your way in life because you will ALWAYS have to work and interact with other people. BUT the good news? You actually have the power to control this. My recommendation is that you seek out a qualified life coach who can help you with tactics and strategies that will make you more comfortable and capable when dealing with people and yourself. Business professionals utilize this service all the time to overcome their shortcomings in order to progress in their professional and personal lives.

I wish you the greatest of luck. I hope you overcome these setbacks and grow as a person. Reading this made me angry because I worked so hard to make this industry my career and your whining about it not being easy is truly obnoxious. Aviation is the greatest club on earth, and being part of it has been the privilege and joy of my life. It was very hard and I am damn proud of myself for having fought the fight. If you want to be a part of it you will be welcomed with open arms by many as a fellow aviator. But you have to pay the dues. And the dues can be hard.

You decide.

Ps, don't like your mom.

Nice response, thank you. Everything in life is hard as you mentioned, but I think it's even harder for me. I like music without lyrics because, I could careless what people sing about, I want to create my own story from the melody. I think the Airline Pilot bubble that I dreamed about it has popped. I still enjoy flying, and maybe you are right, I would not do good in a crew style position. But there is hope that I can change, I would be happy flying 135 or just being a weekend CFI. I don't like to cling to people, I enjoy my privacy. Maybe you are right, I might be selfish/too much in my head.

My Mom knows me best, there is nothing wrong with being honest.

Wow, not in the good way.

That whole post inspired my new avatar. I don't know what to tell you bud, professional piloting is a customer service job. No matter what job you take in this business you'll need to learn how to deal with people. The 135 world is more times than not, more involving with people than the airlines.

What dose your avatar mean? I understand that and can deal/fake it to some extent. But it's not as much as being a Flight Attendant or a ticket agent for example.

So you want a job where you have to constantly either 'deal with it' or 'fake it' on a daily basis?
Doesn't sound like a decision one would make with other choices available. Pretty much sounds like you are setting yourself up for a miserable life.
I'm thinking getting some professional help might be in order.

My avatar is the majority of this thread trying to give you sound advice and running out of ideas fast. You can't expect this business to change for you, you must learn to adapt for it. I think we all would like to give you that golden answer but really this all comes down to how bad do you want it and how hard do you want to work? I think you can try a bit harder than you sound like you are.