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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 3782123)
Your are obviously not familiar with the VA Ratings Document. Ask a military person about it. In short the VA doc will go thru your entire military medical history and pull out things, some very insignificant, they think will attribute to the person getting the highest disability rating possible. Many things are mundane, some are not. And like my brother, he had OSA so had to get an SI for that. He also had 8 other things listed that he recevied no $$$ for but are listed as service connected medical conditions with disablity rating of zero. None are disqualifying or require any other testing outside of a class 1 medical. However, the FAA has those findings and nothing precludes them from having my brother get one of those "investigated" or tested for further means should they so decide.
The VA doc will only go through your record if you let him. You don't have to ever have anything to do with the VA as a service member or vet unless you want to, and make an appointment and go see them. During a VA review, you sign paperwork to apply for disability. You don't have to sign that, and you can be selective about what you apply for. People engage with the VA because $. And it's a whole lot less money than a major airline career. Need to be smart about it. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3783008)
I am familiar.
The VA doc will only go through your record if you let him. You don't have to ever have anything to do with the VA as a service member or vet unless you want to, and make an appointment and go see them. During a VA review, you sign paperwork to apply for disability. You don't have to sign that, and you can be selective about what you apply for. People engage with the VA because $. And it's a whole lot less money than a major airline career. Need to be smart about it. I've been very fortunate to have made it through my military service and still be in reasonably good condition though the beating I took has left me with more than a few aches and pains. I've made a few laps around the sun so I'm sure that can have an affect as well LOL. I remember how they used to harp to everyone in uniform on "don't worry about mental health counseling as it won't affect your clearance/career" I told them they need to understand that the FAA isn't bound by any of that and is not nearly as charitable. On a side note another thing that kept people away from the the VA process was being put on med hold after a deployment while you received screening/care for injuries sustained during the deployment. Imagine being stuck in trashy barracks 1000 miles from home for 6 extra months or more while the military tried to get its act together. Pretty big motivator to keep your mouth shut. The average Joe with no aviation ties is looking at a check of the month club so maximizing dollars is the goal and that makes sense for them. Bottom line is life is all about risk/benefit/reward and everyone has to do the math for their situation. |
There seems to be a concern that claiming disability benefits may jeopardize one's FAA medical. This is not true.
If one claims disability benefits, this does not impose any burden on the FAA medical: the FAA does NOT make aeromedical decisions based on disability claims. Failure to report disability claims is a violation, however. If one has a condition that does not meet FAA medical standards, this imposes a burden on the FAA medical. It doesn't matter if that condition arises from military service, a bad divorce, or the stressful world of Shakespearean sock puppets. If a medical condition exists that requires further scrutiny (special issuance, testing, documentation, etc) for the application for an FAA airman medical certificate, the FAA considers that condition, and the person with that condition, on an individual basis. The concern seems to be, "can I hide this from the FAA?" If one is concerned that making a military disability claim might interfere with FAA medical certification, one isn't concerned about the military claim, but rather being caught with someone that one has elected not to reveal to the FAA. This is a violation; failure to cite a disability claim is a violation, but so is witholding information for the FAA airman medical application. Furthermore, exercising the privileges of a FAA medical certificate, while not in compliance with the FAA medical standards, is a separate violation every time one exercises those privileges (five legs in one day is five separate violations). One can grouse all day long about the unfairness of FAA medical standards, but these standards are what they are: well-established aeromedical standards with the authority of a federal administration and an Act of Congress to back them up. In the context of revealed conditions via application for military benefits, the issue isn't unfairness to military veterans, but ultimately an issue of an individual who is either caught, or doesn't want to be caught, with an unairworthy or non-compliant aeromedical condition. These lines of conversation tend to overlook the underlying, and most important element: if one has a condition that does not meet FAA medical standards, one shouldn't be flying with that condition, and one shouldn't hold a FAA medical until that condition has been addressed satisfactorily. If one has a disqualifying medical or mental condition, one should absolutely NOT be flying until that condition is resolved. One is absolutely NOT legal to fly until that condition is resolved. Whether the condition is resolved by treatment, or by testing and documentation adequate to demonstrate compliance, it must be resolved; one who whines because (s)he is revealed in deception, in an effort to hide a disqualifying condition, has no leg upon which to stand. |
Hiding IS stressful. No doubt about it.
O, that my tongue were in the thunder's mouth! / Then with a passion would I shake the world. Shakespeare remains important because:
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Originally Posted by JBird
(Post 3690482)
So based on the article from WAPO...the FAA is conducting writ large secret investigations into pilot who receive VA benefits...*only* pilots who receive VA benefits. Secret investigations conducted by investigators who were previously employed, and presumably have their retirement pensions controlled by, the former agency, department and section they retired from.
What a great investigative strategy...would work well in Moscow or Berlin 1940. Anyone who thinks the med guys at the FAA aren't simply out to get people need to read no further than "secret." That is not the way a democratic government entity should do business outside of a clear criminal nexus. Not listing that you have hemorrhoids or ED on an FAA medical, does not constitute a criminal nexus yet that act could get you caught up in the same net. Tax $$$ at work people. DoD breaks you, VA buys you, then FAA takes you back for a refund. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 3785241)
I have a significant disability rating. Disclosed properly on every medical. My issue required a SODA which was in work before the disability claim. Zero issues from the FAA other than being helpful.
You were lucky. I have 6 things driving a SI, 2 required SODA. All done and in place long before I separated. FAA knows about things the VA denies are wrong with me. Still got caught up in the witch hunt. They wanted proof I didnt lose consciousness in a car accident when I was 3. (Superficial head wound. Bad car accident when a drunk driver ran a red light, broadsided my family, dad was active duty so it ended up in my file somehow) They wanted a sworn statement from my mother and brother that I didn't lose consciousness. In 1981. I told the FAA to f off (via amas) on that one. Not going to make my elderly mother relive the worst day of her life. My brother, who was 5, still has health isdues stemming from the accident. (Bad head injury. He still is dealing with the after effects at times) |
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3785247)
You were lucky. I have 6 things driving a SI, 2 required SODA. All done and in place long before I separated. FAA knows about things the VA denies are wrong with me.
Still got caught up in the witch hunt. They wanted proof I didnt lose consciousness in a car accident when I was 3. (Superficial head wound. Bad car accident when a drunk driver ran a red light, broadsided my family, dad was active duty so it ended up in my file somehow) They wanted a sworn statement from my mother and brother that I didn't lose consciousness. In 1981. I told the FAA to f off (via amas) on that one. Not going to make my elderly mother relive the worst day of her life. My brother, who was 5, still has health isdues stemming from the accident. (Bad head injury. He still is dealing with the after effects at times) |
Originally Posted by PineappleXpres
(Post 3785639)
How did the feds learn about your 3 year old self?
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Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3785679)
Because I was treated at a military hospital after. And it was later referenced in my NAMI physical when I got a flight school slot 20 years later. (fairly gnarly looking scar on forehead). Which then makes it all go in the stuff the VA has access too, and the VA turns over EVERYTHING they have on you, to the FAA.
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3782116)
Again, you are wrong .
Your brother holds a special issuance. He is subject to a requirement to provide any and all information requested by the FAA at any time during the valid period of his special issuance. All airman, and all holders of special issuance are subject to this same requirement; the FAA issues the certificate, and the exemptions, and the FAA can take them away, re-examine them, or require more data. That is the FAA's perrogative. Whether you have been asked for additional information is irrelevant, and poses no burden on the FAA; the FAA can and does ask whom it will, what it will, for its purposes, as the authority who has the responsibility to do so. You don't get to dictate what the FAA asks for. The FAA dictates; you provide. It's that simple. This is not about military vs. civilian, and your brother does not hold a military special issuance. That's a FAA special issuance. Military, or civilian makes no difference. The FAA has requested documentation, and he will provide it, or may find himself without a special issuance or medical. Again, it's that simple. Oh, there is, and the FAA does it all the time. You can refuse to provide data to the FAA. The FAA can also refuse to issue a medical certificate. Keep in mind that you do not have a right to a FAA airman medical certificate, nor to a pilot certificate. You're going to have to explain this "military SI" thing. A "mil person" requires a special issuance, but a civilian doesn't? If a person has a condition which requires a special issuance, it doesn't matter if that person has a military background or not. That person has a legal requirement to declare it, and failure to declare it is a violation which may result in suspension or revocation (administrative action), up to and including criminal charges and fines/imprisonment, depending on the circumstances. There are penalties for failing to disclose, or faiilure to make truthful statements on a legal document (eg, airman medical application). Your argument seems to be that you can get away with it. You sure that's how you want to roll? Your argument seems to be that military personnel who seek a military disability rating (somthing military personnel must seek, to obtain benefits) are somehow rooted out by the FAA in a quest to unfairly target disabled military personnel. This is not true, and you do not understand either process. The FAA did not target military personnel. The VA targed FAA certificate holders, while the VA was looking for disability fraud. The FAA tried to stay out of it, until the VA brought legal action. The FAA has long required applicants to disclose diability claims. Read your airman medical application form. Item 18.y doesn't cite military disability benefits. The applicant is asked if (s)he has, or has ever had medical disability benefits . You could argue that you could get away with some benefits by hiding them from the FAA, and maybe you could, for a time. The FAA can and does discover such things by other means than self-disclosure. Perhaps you hide it for ten years but it shows up during an application for a special issueance for something entirely unrelated, in insurance paperwork, etc (which may become relevant and discovered); now you have a crime on your hands, instead of something you could have disclosed properly. Hide and violate the regulation at your peril, and kepe chanting to yourself that the FAA won't find out. Good luck. Most of your comments are flawed in premise, and we could address that, but you're not listening, you're beating a drum for your own benefit, and you are agenda-driven here. Your implicit bias is wrong, but very apparent, and any effort to educate you on this matter is clearly wasted. Your commentary smacks of a fantasy world, and is far removed from reality. I focus on reality. If you make it back this way, stop in and say hi...but don't bring your assumptions and agenda with you. We won't be having that conversation again. Do you have a source for the legal push from the VA on the FAA? I believe you, I’d just like to see something from a reliable source. Thanks. |
Originally Posted by LongHornFlyer
(Post 3798718)
Do you have a source for the legal push from the VA on the FAA? I believe you, I’d just like to see something from a reliable source. Thanks.
Whether one believes me or not, does not change the fact. I already researched it and posted the information, and links. I don't need to do it again. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3798756)
It's been given here before, in multiple threads. The search engine works. Or you can look it up independently. It's not that hard to find.
Whether one believes me or not, does not change the fact. I already researched it and posted the information, and links. I don't need to do it again. Mmhmm. Can you teach me how to be as cool as you? I don’t spend my days off on here striving to be an expert on how to operate APC…perhaps I should start there? It was a simple, respectful question. Dang! |
A very good place would be to ditch the laziness and the attitude. I want to believe you, you say, but will you prove that your comments are true?
I've already posted it. Why should I take the time to look it up, link it, and outline it once again, because you're too lazy? A simple search on this site would have garnered what you want. Do I care if you "believe" me? No, I don't. I took the time to research, post, and link. Apparently you can't be bothered to lift a finger. Pathetic. Does everyone grovel and ask "how high?" when you demand they jump? |
Originally Posted by LongHornFlyer
(Post 3798774)
Mmhmm. Can you teach me how to be as cool as you? I don’t spend my days off on here striving to be an expert on how to operate APC…perhaps I should start there? It was a simple, respectful question. Dang!
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Originally Posted by PineappleXpres
(Post 3798790)
JB always gets the last word in.
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It's amazing how many anti-military people are here on APC.
When the FAA is finished going through every single veteran's medical history to find a few fraudsters, I hope they do the same with civilian medical records. . |
As noted, the FAA undertook this action at the behest of the VA.
The FAA has also undertaken similar actions with pilots claiming disabilities in the civilian sector. Those pilots who failed to declare their disability claims were all civilian, seeking FAA civilian medical certification. Go figure. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3798870)
As noted, the FAA undertook this action at the behest of the VA.
The FAA has also undertaken similar actions with pilots claiming disabilities in the civilian sector. Those pilots who failed to declare their disability claims were all civilian, seeking FAA civilian medical certification. Go figure. |
Someone never misses an opportunity to bash veterans who receive VA benefits and lump them all in with the one or two proven fraudsters.
It's the most consistent thing on this forum. . |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3798870)
As noted, the FAA undertook this action at the behest of the VA.
Especially not until they have reasonable procedures and timelines for the special issuance process. One govt agency doesn’t support another unless there is budgetary benefit. |
Gotta love the VA.
I actually have a court date with them after 12+ years of fighting. Medical condition. Started 2003 right after a round of surgeries. On FAA SI for it. Had a NAMI Waiver for it (Navy version of a SI medical) VA "not service connected" Call from the VA office: "You are aware that we share everything from your hearing with the FAA right?" "Is that a threat? Because the FAA is aware of the condition you deny and has granted me a Special Issuance for it" This is the same VA Office (Roanoke, VA) that tries to get me to file for TBI/PTSD vs what's actually wrong with me. |
Originally Posted by KevinGrey400
(Post 3799039)
Just cause VA asked doesn’t mean FAA should oblige.
Perhaps you should read this, and the associated threads, more carefully. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3799109)
The FAA didn't.
Perhaps you should read this, and the associated threads, more carefully.
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3798870)
As noted, the FAA undertook this action at the behest of the VA.
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Cherry pick if you like. I've written a lot more on the subject and provided links, if you'd used the search engine.
The FAA refused the military request and only complied upon legal action. Once that avenue was open, however, the FAA discovered a recurring theme of former military personnel not declaring benefits, as required on the medical application. The FAA has also done the same with other benefits, undeclared, outside of the military. It's been going on for a number of years, and has been big news in the aviation community. Why do you not know this? |
Originally Posted by KevinGrey400
(Post 3799339)
What? Isn’t this what you wrote?
One definition of dementia is when a person argues against themself. |
Former military falsifies application, violates the regulation, places career in jeopardy. Former military cries persecution when caught. It's a witch hunt, after all. In a world where a disgraced former commander-in-chief made popular lies and "alternate facts," it's become de rigueur and normalized: blame the enforcement agency when one's subterfuge and dishonesty is discovered.
Entirely preventable, of course. (Simply tell the truth). Lie, falsify, then blame the FAA: Logical, honorable. Not. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3799352)
The FAA refused the military request and only complied upon legal action.
That doesn’t seem right. |
Yes, it was. It was an internal fraud investigation. The VA reached out to other sources, incuding the FAA, to provide documentation. The FAA declined to do so. The VA took legal action, against which the FAA eventually complied. This has been discussed at length on this site. The search engine works.
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3799709)
Former military falsifies application, violates the regulation, places career in jeopardy. Former military cries persecution when caught. It's a witch hunt, after all. In a world where a disgraced former commander-in-chief made popular lies and "alternate facts," it's become de rigueur and normalized: blame the enforcement agency when one's subterfuge and dishonesty is discovered.
Entirely preventable, of course. (Simply tell the truth). Lie, falsify, then blame the FAA: Logical, honorable. Not. I'm on FAA SIs for things that happened when I was active duty that the VA denies. Yet the FAA after reviewing my records wanted proof I never lost consciousness in a car accident that left me with a gnarly scar on my head. When I was three. They wanted a letter from someone else in the car proving I never lost consciousness. dad: deceased (2017) Sister: deceased (1982) brother: brain damage from accident (hit on his side by dui running red light) Me: unreliable witness because I was 3. And subject of investigation. Mom: not going to make an elderly woman with PTSD issues relive the worst day of her life under oath. I'll call this a freaking witch hunt. |
Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
(Post 3799641)
One definition of dementia is when a person argues against themself.
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This is a thread about FAA investigation and enforcement of those who failed to declare VA disability benefits.
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3799734)
I'm on FAA SIs for things that happened when I was active duty that the VA denies.
If you have medical conditions which warrant a special issuance, then you have medical conditions which warrant special issuance, regardless of when or where those events occurred. Your special issuance has nothing to do with VA benefits, which makes it irrelevant to this thread. Further, your special issuance is no whitch hunt: it's the result of a determination that you have medical conditions which warrant special issuance, because without that, you are medically inelligible to hold FAA airman medical certification.
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3799734)
Yet the FAA after reviewing my records wanted proof I never lost consciousness in a car accident that left me with a gnarly scar on my head. When I was three.
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3799734)
And yet
They wanted a letter from someone else in the car proving I never lost consciousness. dad: deceased (2017) Sister: deceased (1982) brother: brain damage from accident (hit on his side by dui running red light) Me: unreliable witness because I was 3. And subject of investigation. Mom: not going to make an elderly woman with PTSD issues relive the worst day of her life under oath.
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3799734)
I'll call this a freaking witch hunt.
Your situation is unfortunate. You bring it up a lot, at great length. That does not make it relevant. |
This is a very predictable thread.
Enforcement action reported against a few lawbreakers. On cue.... anti military type carpet bombs thread with broad brush accusations of fraud, subterfuge, dishonesty, etc. 23 out of 111 posts on this thread. Fully 20% of the posts are long winded rants painting service members in a bad light. No mention whatsoever of the witch hunt letters the FAA sent to ALL VETERANS with service connected injuries accusing them of failing to disclose..... despite the fact that 99% of the veterans had already shared their VA health records with the FAA. JohnBurke you have very clearly shown your true colors. . |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3799744)
This is a thread about FAA investigation and enforcement of those who failed to declare VA disability benefits.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with failing to disclose VA benefits, resulting in investigation for your failure to disclose, which makes it irrelevant to this thread. If you have medical conditions which warrant a special issuance, then you have medical conditions which warrant special issuance, regardless of when or where those events occurred. Your special issuance has nothing to do with VA benefits, which makes it irrelevant to this thread. Further, your special issuance is no whitch hunt: it's the result of a determination that you have medical conditions which warrant special issuance, because without that, you are medically inelligible to hold FAA airman medical certification. Which is does not involve a failure to disclose VA benefits on your airman medical application, not were you investigated for such failure, which makes this irrelevant to the thread. All irrelevant to this thread, and nothing whatsoever to do with military benefits, or the investigation thereof, or the failure to declare those benefits on your airman medical application. Which does not make it so, nor is it relevant to the thread. Your situation is unfortunate. You bring it up a lot, at great length. That does not make it relevant. How the hell is the FAA, grounding me, and making me prove a negative on something that wouldn't have been 8500 reportable beyond 3 years not a witch hunt? I reported everything that was required to be reported, and I was grounded and out of work until I got my Congresswoman involved. Over a scar on my forehead. No LOC. Just a scar. Documented on my MEPS physical in 1996. "Cut by flying glass in car accident" 40 years time late "you can't work and we cant give you a timeline or path aside from a third party attesting that you didn't lose consciousness in a car accident when you were a small child" How the funk is that not a witch hunt. I've been through a ton of surgeries. FAA knows about them all but grounded over 10 stitches when I was 3? Not a witch hunt against veterans? You know what? I'd rather have 0% VA disability if I could get a normal spine, my original face and the ability to have children back. But I can't. And being treated worse than a criminal by the FAA is the reward. Take my accident. Turn it into an accused theft. "We belive that you stole a dirtbike when you were 17. We have no proof that you did, no witnesses, nothing but prove you didn't steal one or we will remove you livelihood and possibly give you jail time" That would NEVER hold up in court. But that's exactly the sort of kangaroo court crap they are doing to us. You hate veterans. Good for you. That's allowed in America. But I am also free to think you are a jerk for it. |
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3799760)
How the hell is the FAA, grounding me, and making me prove a negative on something that wouldn't have been 8500 reportable beyond 3 years not a witch hunt?
I reported everything that was required to be reported, and I was grounded and out of work until I got my Congresswoman involved. Over a scar on my forehead. No LOC. Just a scar. Documented on my MEPS physical in 1996. "Cut by flying glass in car accident" 40 years time late "you can't work and we cant give you a timeline or path aside from a third party attesting that you didn't lose consciousness in a car accident when you were a small child" How the funk is that not a witch hunt. I've been through a ton of surgeries. FAA knows about them all but grounded over 10 stitches when I was 3? Not a witch hunt against veterans? You know what? I'd rather have 0% VA disability if I could get a normal spine, my original face and the ability to have children back. But I can't. And being treated worse than a criminal by the FAA is the reward. Take my accident. Turn it into an accused theft. "We belive that you stole a dirtbike when you were 17. We have no proof that you did, no witnesses, nothing but prove you didn't steal one or we will remove you livelihood and possibly give you jail time" That would NEVER hold up in court. But that's exactly the sort of kangaroo court crap they are doing to us. You hate veterans. Good for you. That's allowed in America. But I am also free to think you are a jerk for it. |
Originally Posted by METO Guido
(Post 3799809)
Reach out to your Congressman. If you’ve already done so, try again. November is closing in.
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3799726)
Yes, it was. It was an internal fraud investigation. The VA reached out to other sources, incuding the FAA, to provide documentation. The FAA declined to do so. The VA took legal action, against which the FAA eventually complied. This has been discussed at length on this site. The search engine works.
That’s not what you said. You said the “miltary” I don’t mean to be an a$$, but you know there is a difference between the DoD and the VA. Right? Are you sure you understand the proximate cause of this? |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 3799352)
Cherry pick if you like. I've written a lot more on the subject and provided links, if you'd used the search engine.
The FAA refused the military request and only complied upon legal action. Once that avenue was open, however, the FAA discovered a recurring theme of former military personnel not declaring benefits, as required on the medical application. The FAA has also done the same with other benefits, undeclared, outside of the military. It's been going on for a number of years, and has been big news in the aviation community. Why do you not know this? I don’t think you understand the difference between the “ military” and the VA. Seems like a bit of confusion here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit...terans_Affairs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit...ent_of_Defense I’m not a huge Wikipedia fan, but I think they will cover the basics for you. |
Originally Posted by KevinGrey400
(Post 3800069)
That’s not what you said. You said the “miltary”
I don’t mean to be an a$$, but you know there is a difference between the DoD and the VA. Right? Are you sure you understand the proximate cause of this? Although in the eyes of congress their funding gets lumped together, ie big requirements for the VA can detract from what's available for DoD, practically speaking. So defense planners need to consider the fiscal impact on future DoD sustainemnt before commiting ground forces in foriegn wars. Although the Pols tend not to listen or care. |
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3799760)
How the hell is the FAA, grounding me, and making me prove a negative on something that wouldn't have been 8500 reportable beyond 3 years not a witch hunt?
I reported everything that was required to be reported, and I was grounded and out of work until I got my Congresswoman involved. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3800138)
Yes the VA is not the DoD.
Although in the eyes of congress their funding gets lumped together, ie big requirements for the VA can detract from what's available for DoD, practically speaking. So defense planners need to consider the fiscal impact on future DoD sustainemnt before commiting ground forces in foriegn wars. Although the Pols tend not to listen or care. |
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