Pilot Mental Health - Impacts of job
 

Hi all

I'm sure we all know that our job isn't overly conduvice to a healthy lifestyle. As a UK based skipper of over 10 years & big interest in mental health, I spent the last few months putting together lots of facts, stats and information about how the job role affects airline pilots mental & physical health. The article has been published by a site here https://pilotbible.com/airline-pilot-mental-health/

It's something I really hope can move the needle for improving pilots mental health. It's hopefully a good comprehensive break down of everything that impacts us as pilots. If any current or ex airline pilots have anything they think is missing from it or would make a nice addition, would you be so kind as to discuss below so it can be added?

Thanks!

Interesting site. Good that you're saying all the quiet parts out loud. It's quite absurd that the FAA and other regulatory agencies like to pretend that the lifestyle doesn't cause depression and anxiety, among many other issues.

Incredibly depressing doing what one loves, making a ridiculous sum of money for sitting on one's ass for hours on end, and working tightly controlled hours with built-in fatigue protections, based on circadian rhythm.

It's a wonder we don't all have PTSD. What could possibly be more stressful and anxiety-producing than flying from A to B? Oh, the hardship.

Thank god someone has finally blown the lid off this pressure-cooker. Perhaps we can all take a step back now and let that callous heal on the one, solitary finger that we use to press the buttons on the FMC, and engage the autopilot.

I think a lot of the stresses of this job are external. (Family, time gone, medical issues, job security, constant scrutiny, etc). I think the flying part like you said is the easiest.

If it wasn't an issue then people wouldn't be popping up with issues, but there are. A portion of society will succumb to some sort of emotional or mental distress during the course of their lifetime. It has zero to do with how much money they make, how lazy they get to be, how much they love their job etc. All sorts of illnesses exist and always will, to include the brain and nervous system. Then there is addiction which is another animal entirely. Hopefully the stigma behind these issues will fade away sooner rather than later, especially with new generations replacing the old. This will result in pilots being more willing to admit to having issues and seeking help (AND REPORTING TO THE FAA) as required. This "you have an awesome job, make a ton of money for pushing buttons so what do you have to be depressed about" just keeps the stigma alive. Stop it already.

Exacty. People get sick, divorced, children or parents pass away, spouses have affairs. There are too many things to mention that can have an affect on anyone's mental well being (including pilots). Then there are definitely the stressors of the job itself. The FAA forming the mental health committee is a step in the right direction.

Flying, flying jobs, and aviation don't cause mental issues, depression, and anxiety. External forces do, and should be addressed and treated, but let's not be so prissy as to pretend (and expect anyone to believe) that this is a job of suffering and hardship. It's not.

Especially not airline flying.

However, having flown in combat conditions, and peacetime, having flown into raging forest fires in tight, smoked-in canyons, having towed banners, flown jumpers, jumped, done corporate, charter, ambulance, cargo, passengers, 135 and 121, ample governent flying, international operations in every continent but antarctica and to every country; having taught in flight and classrooms and in simulators; having turned wrenches in sub-zero temperatures with icicles on my nose and chin, and inside wings in fuel cells during record high temperature streaks in the desert, and having flown into thunderstorms over and over for the sake of science, ad infinitum, plus a few other things, don't try to convince me that this "life of hardship" is anything but a privileged existence. To say otherwise is utter bull ****.

You appear to say otherwise, don't you?

Go live a life of poverty, try working for a living, visit a land of pestilence, famine, and suffering, and then come backt to tell me how hard it is working in a first world airline or aviation environment. The heart bleeds not.

Keep saying otherwise, though.

As for having mental, emotional, or other conditions that are quite real, whether stemming from combat or divorce or car wrecks or financial strain, or perhaps the haunting of a child's dying tears or the countless starving one was unable to help (been there, for all), help is available and needed. If one needs help, get it. If one is unable to fly as a result of these stresses, or of any other condition, affliction, or hardship, then don't fly. It's no different than having a limiting other medical condition.

Aviation doesn't cause addiction, nor neurological conditions, but should such exist among the certificated and employed, or those seeking to be, then those must get the help they need. Don't blame it on the industry. In fact, forget blame, get the help. Don't pretend, however, that it stems from flying the line.

Nobody is saying airline jobs cause mental illness. It is one piece of a very complicated puzzle. Most of us have worked for a living, and a significant portion of us have served our country and experienced things that should not be experienced. Because you become and airline pilot and make 300K a year to turn the autopilot on does not erase somebodies past life and experiences. There are phisiological and mental stresses that being a part 121 pilot encompasses, everything on the site that OP posts is valid. From jet lag, to altitude, to endless hotels. It all has an affect, nothing wrong with acknowledging that and studying it.

It’s not the job that causes anxiety and depression, it’s the lifestyle associated with it. Inconsistent sleep/wake times, disruption to circadian rhythm, poor diet and lack of exercise are all major contributors to depression and anxiety and there is a lot of good scientific data to support it. Add in a few interpersonal issues at home and you’ve got a pilot at risk of chronic depression. I always make it a priority to get good food, sleep and exercise on layovers, but some trips have consistently short layovers with at least one circadian swap. A disruption as simple as that can mess up your psyche for a few days, especially if you do a few of these types of trips back to back. I love my job and wouldn’t ever want to do anything else, but I’m also keenly aware of the physical toll this lifestyle takes.

"Jet lag" doesn't cause a debilitating mental or emotional condition. Nor do "endless hotels."

You may have missed the assertion and point of the original post in this thread (the subject of the thread), if you say that "nobody is saying airline jobs cause mental illness." It seems that's exactly what the original poster said:

What's the longest you've ever spent in "endless hotels," that's caused such hardship?

Of course, and these things are cumulative. I mean to say well "I've done this and I've done that and there are starving children in Africa and I don't have depression" doesn't make it fact and true for everybody else. Everybodies situation is different. It is something to acknowledge and be aware of. If it wasn't, then there wouldn't have been the approval of the SSRI protocol in 2010 (because there were in fact A LOT of pilots suffering from depression). It is finally becoming more mainstream and accepted (which is good).

Like I said, it is one piece of an overall picture. Jet lag does in fact cause disruptions in mood and cognitive health. When I went through night vision goggle training, we were educated on the negative affects of night flying and circadian disruption, and its effect on mood and mental well being. The airline environment does in fact have an effect on mental health and well being. If you can't accept that then agree to disagree.

Controlling expectations…
 

A lot of people seem to believe that antidepressants are some sort of "magic bullet." They aren't. Used appropriately they are certainly a help, but thei efficacy is nowhere near 100%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK361016/

An excerpt:

If anything, this job helps my mental health.

Fly to London, workout, happy hour with the crew, sleep, then fly home.

Plenty of non-airline types are basket cases that I don’t think this Cadillac of a job is really contributing to it. Depending on the job of course. Us airline peeps on the left side of the pond are getting paid quite well with excellent work rules.

If you're loking for a magic pill to solve all your problems, that may not pan out for you.

But if you're pro-actively taking control of your life and health, your prospects are pretty good, and meds can help get you started in the right direction.

There has long been a trend toward overmedicating mental and emotional conditions, rather than treating the root, and much of the time, it's not chemical. But therein runs the schism between psychology and psychiatry.

A disturbing effort seems to be a growing undercurrent that wants to legitimize mental and emotional conditions to make them paletable and acceptable for flight, the idea being that pilots will reveal them if they think they can fly with that condition. In many cases, thy shouldn't be flying with that condition; the FAA. knows it. The pilot knows it. The pilot hides it to prevent the FAA from knowing about it, and grounding the pilot, when the pilot should be grounded.

The FAA is concerned about medication, but in all cases, the chief concern is the underlying condition for which the medication is taken.

Far more go without medication than with; the undiagnosed or untreated go absent aids or a course of therapy, whether pharmaceutical, counseling, or otherwise. It does no one any good to explain away the condition as the result of a flying career. The blam game only goes so far, and does nothing for diagnosis, let alone treatment. Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome is not a thing; it's a farce spoken among those too weak to own up to the responsibility for the fialure of their own marriage, and the inability to own it leads to failure to move past, and anger...which turned inward, is depression, and worse. The career is an easy scapegoat. The same is true of porn addiction, gambling addiction, alcohol, drugs, etc. The career is low-hanging fruit, but to hide behind the fringe of hours and hotels and time on the road is to lie to one's self, and a failure to own. The victim of self is the apologist, and the apology is stale, but rampant.

Turned me into a newt. A newt with a sockpuppet & an iPad

Mental health is not exclusively but primarily a result of the luxury of having First World problems.
Orphaned child soldiers in the Sudan don’t have time for this.

Quite so.

We live in a world of 'likes.'

Look at me, and see me sad. Celebrate my sorrow, and feel for me.

Meanwhile, the world that be damned, that hasn't starved, burns. Few in the 'like' world cry for that.

so if it’s such a cake job would you contend we are overpaid?

Compared to an E-3 within rocket or mortar range of bad guys out to get him, Hell yes. But it's like management executives,,, yiu get what you negotiate, not necessarily what you are worth. It's the American way...

"Cake walk?" Your words. You quote me, insert your words, and ask me to agree? How is a "cake walk" relevant to pay?

Pay does not emeliorate stress, nor emotional nor mental affliction. It can reduce fiscal stress. A comfortable pay does not mean, nor imply that one will be unaffected by stresses, nor does it imply that one manages that pay effectively.

Furthermore, simply becuase one has a good job that one may enjoy does not mean that pay is therefore excessive; to make such a connection is a fallacy, and implies that good pay is only acceptable if one dislikes one's job or finds it a hardship (the unspoken collorary to which is that one's pay should be reduced if the job is easy or enjoyable). Idiotic.

If making the comparison to those who live lives of poverty or hardship, your question implies that if the job is easy ("a cakewalk"), then it implies overpay relative to those who have a harder life or lower pay. It overlooks the obvious; that those in poverty are underpaid, which is far more conducive to stress and subsequent hardship, and mental and emotional toll. If indeed we are overpaid then that doesnot contribute to mental or emotional abnormality, unless one suffers from guilt associated with the pay. Either way, a pointless sidetrack to the thread.

Whether we are overpaid or not is irrelevant to the subject of the thread.

Meds held you when the train has so far left the station that CBT won’t do a thing. Stress on the brain and nervous system are well known and studied. It’s rarely pathological. Just need to slow the train down so you can life coach, CBT, etc.

The pressure of not meeting societal expectations and our own expectations is real. Que japanese cubical worker leaping. Orphaned child soldiers will have anxiety and depression from the PTSD when their life slows down and they are out of survival mode. Que the American soldier who makes it back and eats breakfast at a Waffle House.

Of course you’re not incorrect and we’re not Sudan and we’re not Japan either.
Im asking you to consider the possibility of tens of thousands of pilots having flown hundreds of thousands of hours while having had to deal with adult stuff.
Not every single thing has to be diagnosed.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...ns-2024-04-01/


FAA appointed advisory panel recommends that "talk therapy" not trigger the mandatory reporting requirement.

Also suggests a grandfather/amnesty for past mental health issues.

Great news! I am in the middle of this right now (disclosing past omissions). Hopefully this policy is implemented. It's a step in the right direction.

Yours was decidedly not a case of an airline pilot driven to madness, depression, or "anxiety."

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/p...clean-faa.html

You didn't disclose treatment received while a military helicopter pilot, and later elected to disclose it. Yours was not the result of the hard, difficult, arduous airline life with it's "endless" nights in hotels and the overnights. Yours was combat-related, and your FAA disclosure, detailed in the above-linked thread, simply revealing what you didn't tell the FAA at the outset, prior to beginning your cargo airline career.

The advisory panel's recommendation was not exclusively applicable to pilots who incurred mental health problems in the line of 121 duty.

The thread is.

Go figure.

Seems like we are in agreement. Japanese, Sudanese, and Americans are all human with the same brains and associated stress response. Dealing with adult stuff is what we are talking about here. Dealing with it in a healthy manner quickly is efficient. The public benefits from pilots who are fit to fly.

The impacts of being an airline pilot and mental health conundrum is on topic. Surgeouns and Presidents don't have that dilemma.

No we’re not.
Nature or Nurture.
If we are letting generation after generation grow up with “mental health days” and “hurt my feelings” and gluten free soy lattes and spinner bags we are creating nothing but chaos in our future.

Otoh, when fire handles start talking, probably time for a mental health day.

Access vs reliance is fairly well defined. Those without egos or not Fox News obtuse can see the difference.

It all started to go downhill when they banned dodgeball at recess...

It isn’t in my kids school in a blue state.

We-do-not-have-to-identify-every-feeling-nor-diagnose-it.


Fox-free household.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/26FL3...giphy.gif&ct=g

Wrong

Moving metal, lots of plastic nowadays, can be pure joy. As a job, it can really suck. Need a break, take a break. lest you become a nutless door plug.

Good work study boss. Interesting to see it appear from your ranks. Thank you.

Tired of pronouns, move to the bush.

Bush. Great word. Did you read the attached work? Unfamiliar territory? I’m listening. we’re all listening