Airline Pilot Central Forums - Alcohol question

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Yes in regards to the FAA. He was required to go see a Psychiatrist and have an evaluation. He was required to give references and they called me and asked me quite a few questions. At the time I did not think he had a problem. I told them he might drink too much on a rare occasion but a lot people do including myself. I love a good beer but my diet won't allow me to consume 3 or 4 beers in a night anymore and I realized it is probably not good for you. If you have more than two in one sitting that's probably too much so it is matter of perspective. The truth came out later and it was a good thing it did and no one got hurt because of the problem. It was a learning experience for me too. Like I said best of luck and maybe it is a blessing and you can help some one else out in the future. It certainly made me a more compassionate person watching someone go through this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 2758527)

So you had an accident driving while intoxicated, ended up with a TBI, had blood work in the ER that was “suspiciously” high, to the extent that it was STILL high the next day? And you somehow believe because you were never really CHARGED with a DUI that the THREE physicians you have talked to can’t possibly be correct in saying you are headed for HIMS - if indeed you are even THAT fortunate?

I kind of missed the part where he said he knocked himself out driving while intoxicated. May I suggest a Breathalyzer for this thread. I'm in the HIMS program, and if anyone would care for information from someone in the program, rather than getting advice from someone who is not, and likely doing the same thing; PM me, Frats, Larry:)

I know a similar situation. A friend of mine who had two visits to the hospital from two separate wild trips to Vegas. He reported it to the FAA/his AME and had to go through the whole process of HIMS, took him a lot of money and valuable time. He always says he wished he never reported it to the FAA/his AME to begin with because the FAA never asks about hospital records. And he never drinks nor had a problem with stopping. The FAA medical application asks if you have an issue with substance abuse or dependency. If she has ever been diagnosed (by a doctor) with either of those then she needs to put yes. A person can play a dangerous game if they really do have a drinking problem, don't seek a medical advice, and lie about it on that form. Whether she has to or not go through the HIMS program, she will be able to get a 1st class medical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyperry (Post 3178923)

Incorrect. They don't ask about "hospital records" but they ask about ANY health care you've received, and there's also a separate check-box for hospital admissions.

So if you don't report that, you're lying at least twice and on that form lying's a federal felony. Pilot's do go to jail for that...

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/p...dictments.html

So the real question is "will they find out"? Dangerous game, not for the faint of heart.

Quote:

§ 67.403 Applications, certificates, logbooks, reports, and records: Falsification, reproduction, or alteration; incorrect statements.(a) No person may make or cause to be made -

(1) A fraudulent or intentionally false statement on any application for a medical certificate or on a request for any Authorization for Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate (Authorization) or Statement of Demonstrated Ability (SODA) under this part;

(2) A fraudulent or intentionally false entry in any logbook, record, or report that is kept, made, or used, to show compliance with any requirement for any medical certificate or for any Authorization or SODA under this part;

(3) A reproduction, for fraudulent purposes, of any medical certificate under this part; or

(4) An alteration of any medical certificate under this part.

(b) The commission by any person of an act prohibited under paragraph (a) of this section is a basis for -

(1) Suspending or revoking all airman, ground instructor, and medical certificates and ratings held by that person;

(2) Withdrawing all Authorizations or SODA's held by that person; and

(3) Denying all applications for medical certification and requests for Authorizations or SODA's.

(c) The following may serve as a basis for suspending or revoking a medical certificate; withdrawing an Authorization or SODA; or denying an application for a medical certificate or request for an authorization or SODA:

(1) An incorrect statement, upon which the FAArelied, made in support of an application for a medical certificate or request for an Authorization or SODA.

(2) An incorrect entry, upon which the FAA relied, made in any logbook, record, or report that is kept, made, or used to show compliance with any requirement for a medical certificate or an Authorization or SODA.

It isn’t just the risk of a few months in Club Fed either.
You are literally betting your entire career the FAA will never find out.

Current HIMS info

https://i.ibb.co/h2t4ncF/BE30-C079-5...1919-AEC11.jpg

https://shackelford.law/wp-content/u...-Documents.pdf

Quote:

On April 1, 2020, the NTSB accepted an FAA proposal which met safety recommendation A-07-43, and extended follow up for airmen with a diagnosis of substance dependence. Subsequent to that decision, AAM reevaluated the minimum requirements of the HIMS recovery program, in consultation with the airline HIMS chairs and addiction psychiatry consultants. Note that the time course below is nominal and indicates usual, uncomplicated progression of recovery but may be modified on a case-by-case basis. The testing frequencies listed are minimums and may be increased at the discretion of the HIMS AME.
Effective immediately:
Permanent abstinence from mind and mood altering substances is expected for the duration of the flying career.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmk1984 (Post 2760014)

Thank you for providing an example of a situation at least partly similar to mine and some valuable advice. Obviously I'm not here to convince anyone my side of the story, as no one knows me and there's zero point. The reason I came looking for similar occurrences is because of all the random info and opinions people provide me. This was a very strange and out of character accident, so everyone that knows me personally can't believe it happened at all. All my pilot friends flatly cannot believe me when I tell them that I think there's a high probability that I'll be required to do HIMS. My ex-Chief Pilot, my AME and every one of my friends all say there's no way this isolated incident away from work results in HIMS. But I find that people who don't know me typically say it will (and of course on here they also like to sprinkle in a large dose of "holier than thou.") Which is telling in-and-of itself because if this looks bad to someone who doesn't know me then I tend to believe that perspective since that's where the medical board will be coming from.

I have accepted the high probability of HIMS and other than the money and the inconvenience I don't have a problem with it. I haven't had a drink in the 4 months since this happened because alcohol is bad for brain injury recovery. I can quit forever if need be. I don't WANT to, because it's not a vice for me. No one close to me has taken this obviously GOLDEN opportunity to say "you know what, maybe you have a drinking problem?" But I would certainly do it if that's what the feds want. But like I said, my pilot friends, my wife, my AME, my mom -- no one can believe this, and no one believes that HIMS is possible, or necessary. I mistakenly thought I could find some examples of alcohol related injuries and their disposition here. In hindsight I should have known better, it's too hard for some to resist the opportunity this forum provides to sit in judgement of others.

Just a quick follow up, and feel free to message me if you want -- You said you "went to bat" for your friend, how so? With the FAA?

I’d say step one is don’t have this attitude when talking to the FAA. Even if you don’t have a problem, you sound highly defensive and in denial. It doesn’t matter what all the people you know think about you, it matters what the FAA thinks about you. And they don’t know you.

This article from AOPA may be applicable to this issue.

”Pilot sentenced to jail for lying on medical application - AOPA”

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...al-application

You also could run afoul of the ATF when buying a gun. There is a question about addiction and abuse.