FAA revoked Medical after first DUI
 

Hi All - I'm currently a CFII multiengine, fairly low time pilot. Last year I received a DWI, which I reported correctly to the FAA and followed up when they requested more information.
My BAC was admittedly quite high at the time of arrest - 0.21. The FAA responded to me that they were revoking my medical due to "Tolerance", but provided no additional information. I had court ordered alcohol treatment as well as 2 months meeting with an psychologist alcohol counselor, who determined I do not have alcohol abuse / dependence and that it was an isolated, albeit irresponsible one time incident.
This report was part of what I had sent the FAA when they came back and said "tolerance".

I responded to their letter asking for more information and the next steps, and have heard nothing for 4 months now. As far as I know, my certificate is still valid - just the medical was revoked.

I don't even know the next step - contact a lawyer? Is this something that I can even come back from? From what I read, most people do not even have a problem with 1 DUI, and some people are still flying with 2.

Thanks for the advice,
Joe

Assuming you are clean and sober now and have been since the incident, seek out a HIMS AME and he/she will be able to quide you. Lot of hoops . . . but it is the way back!

I keep saying that DUIs are strange offenses. Everyone makes mistakes but that one is treated as if you had killed someone. It is mostly because of the amount of political attention that DUIs receive.

I bet your your medical was revoked because your bac was above .149.

Best of luck.

Well if that's not the understatement of the year....I don't know what is.





atp

Joe, I would guess that due to the .21bac, they can hang you out to dry due to a lack of judgement.
A NWA crew was faced with similar aftr flying from Far to Msp. If I remember correctly, The FE and FO claimed it was a one time thing, they lost their licenses and went to federal prison while the Capt., claimed he had a problem and went to rehab and got his job back, wrote a book appeared on tv and retired with lot$ of good stuff.....

AOPA Medical and Legal

The Captain ended up federal prison, believe the other pilots also served time.

I believe the Captain got pardoned and came back to NWA in the role of Sim Instructor or similar and retired with full benefits.

He was pardoned after spending time in federal prison, he came back...aft getting all of his lic back, think he did the sim thing and retired.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will be in contact with AOPA medical and legal. Unfortunately, while I subscribe to AOPA, I did not opt in to the medical or legal at the time of the arrest / conviction.

The FO wrote a book about the entire thing called "Flying Drunk". After the incident he served a few years in prison, then had to go through the entire process of redoing all of his tickets from Private on up.

Met him at Oshkosh several years ago. Very nice guy, pleasure to talk to. He is (or was at the time) on the MD-80 at AA.

Good book. The captain was rehired by NWA and retired a 747 Captain. The FO is still on the 80 with AA. But these things happened in a different time and place.

You could have refused the breath test. Your medical would still have been deferred and you would have been required to be evaluated by a substance abuse counselor. But you may have gotten your medical back.

But the .21 is evidence of alcohol dependence (tolerance) in the mind of the FAA. It is a long road back. And costly. There is a process, and it starts with a 30-day impatient rehab, followed by outpatient care, all documented as outlined by the FAA.

There are companies that can help you get your medical back in as little as a year (l e f t s e a t . c o m, for example). It will cost you. It will take time. There will be random alcohol tests, so it will also require abstinence.

Don't loose sleep over this. If you are an AOPA member, they will be happy to help. They will likely require you to join the plan but small investment.

Good luck and you can get thru this.

Another matter is the conviction itself, is the case adjudicated/finalized or are things still pending. Almost all first time DUI's where no injury or damage (you didn't wreck out or crash into a neighbors yard) get reduced to lower charges if you weren't an a**hole with the police. So you need an DUI attorney for that. This is another matter from the AOPA legal matter. You can keep your FAA medical but a DUI conviction on your record is still gonna hurt you, aviation wise.

Good lucl

AOPA, Leftseat etc all will require a HIMS AME, inpatient rehab, birds of a feather et. al. and yes documented sobriety for as long as you hold a airman's certificate.

Is it worth the effort to get back? Honestly, why would you spend untold more dollars to get back to flight instructing, only to get you where? A regional? Eventually to a major after a decade or so? Maybe its time to look to another career with better payout and less critical hiring standards...shouldn't be hard to locate.

You heard wrong. One DUI in today's climate is going to create monumental employment challenges, at least for any decent job. You could well be looking at ten years before any airline would even think about talking to you. Your long term prospects may also depend on your age when it happened...when you are 30 or 45 they may be forgiving of a DUI at age 19.

But DUI after 30? Fughedaboudit.

Two DUIs and you are 100% done.

Yes, there are folks flying with one or more DUI's, but they are mostly older guys who got theirs back in the day when a DUI was hardly more than an expensive traffic ticket. Times and attitudes have changed drastically.

the best news for you is that you have not invested that many years in this career...because it's time to look for a new one. You can keep flying on the side and possibly even return to aviation in 10+ years but your prospects are very grim right now.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

I agree. In today's age of

- Need 10+ internal recs
- Need to pass various written and psych tests (FedEx, AMR)
- Extensive Background checks
- Company check airman/IP time required
- Panel Interview followed by HR review and CP review and then final review for final final green light (SWA)
- Etc etc

a DUI conviction on your record is gonna set you WAY back.

This may be the time for some self-reflection and ask yourself if this is the career for you...

It may be worth it for you to spend the time and money to get your medical back. You CAN get it back. And I'm of the opinion that there are decent jobs to be had with a single DUI on your record. If you're thinking airlines, I would listen carefully to rickair's advice.

However, there is something else to think about. And this is between you and yourself. Do you have a drinking problem? You don't have to make any confessions on this forum or anybody else for that matter. Only to yourself. If you think you are a person who needs help, then get your help, and do it under the guidelines of the FAA. In this way, you are tackling a real-life problem that can literally take EVERYTHING away from you, while continuing to keep your flying dream alive.

You earn your medical back and have the FAA's approval and show a prospective employer what you have overcome. There are so many people in the aviation industry that have an understanding of alcohol and its problems. There will be people impressed with your recovery and commitment and persistance and let you fly their airplane.

If, on the other hand, it was truly a freak and random incident and you don't believe you are in any danger, then move on from this career.

yes friend . . . to fly or not to fly. Let it never be said that the FAA unfairly denied you an airman's certificate. As mentioned above if you do not have an alcohol problem, then it will be an easy 6 month path costing say $12, the majority is the 30 day inpatient rehab as a result of YOUR BAL. In summary, is aviation your passion or no? And are factors in your life giving you warning that there may be a problem that supersedes ALL other problems u think you may or may not have.

I think I'm 75% there as far as choosing another career. Even if I do get my medical back following the FAA's steps as you guys mentioned, I still have the issue of getting hired with a DUI on my record.
With that said, flying still isn't something I'm really willing to give up - I've been flying since I was 15, soloed on my 16th license on my 17th etc etc. I'm still in my (late) 20s so flying is all I really know/knew. Whether or not it ultimately is a career, I'm still not willing to give it up. I contacted leftseat dot com for additional information.
Is the inpatient something like a sober house where you still have the option of leaving to go to a job during the day, or is it truly inpatient, such as in a clinic setting. I just don't have enough $$ sitting around to give up a month of income.
Thanks again

I got a DUI. It happened just after the FAA implented stricter guidelines for first-time offenders. One DUI used to be handled at the discretion of your AME, and this is still the case if you blow under 15. But if you blow 15 or over, or if you refuse, your AME is required to defer your medical application to Oke City for review.

In my case, I refused the breath test. The process took several months, and I used that time to start researching what I may have to do should my medical be denied. So to answer your question, yes, it is truly a 30 day inpatient rehab in a clinical setting. So you would obviously lose a month of income. And without medical insurance, expect to pay about $12,000 to $15,000 for the 30 day program.

Then obviously there are costs associated with the IOP (intensive outpatient program), which is required following the in-patient. And if you utilize a company like leftseat, there are cost associated with that.

There is another possibility. Oke City can further defer your application to DC, in which case you will be required to undergo an very thorough examination by an FAA appointed doctor. I think the evaluation may take an entire day or two, also at your expense.. in the range of $3000. If they determine that you do not suffer from any mental/psychological illness (such as alcoholism), you will get your medical back without the treatment. But blowing a 21 and driving.. its gonna be hard to convince anybody that you are not in need of some type of treatment.

If you are single, without children, and want a flying career very badly, and you had someway of getting the money required, I would do the treatment. But if you don't think you are not an alcoholic, or if you have a wife and kids to support, or if you don't believe you can get a job, then definitely your time and money is better spent moving on.

You COULD get a job, by the way. It wouldn't be an airline job but that may be one of the hidden blessings. No offense to airline guys, there just seems to be a lot of discontent. Anyway, don't want to go off on a tanget. I hope I helped answer some of your questions and happy to answer anymore that you may have.

The FO* eventually got hired at American, the book was called "flying drunk".

If your medical is revoked and your income is from being a CFI, how are you still making money now? No medical, no flying, no paycheck. I didn't read the entire 3 page thread, so if I missed something, I do apologize.

I found work assembling office furniture...

Can't you still be a CFI without a medical under certain circumstances??

Yea - so long as my student is at least a private pilot with a valid medical. That cuts out about 90% of students, plus I could never do anything else besides instruct.

I just got my medical after ONE YEAR of jumping through the FAA's hoops.

I got a DUI in 2007 and applied for my medical in March 2011. That DUI is the ONLY thing on my record BTW and it still took a year.

The reason it took so long is because I blew a .22 and the FAA's cut off at the time for tollerance and dependency issue was .20. They have recently reaised that to a .25

If you are worried about getting a job, I wouldn't be. Maybe you wont fly with an airline immediatly but there are so many locally owned flying jobs out there owned by guys that have recieved DUI's and worse. Shoot Ive heard of a few Ag pilots that dont even have drivers liscences.

Appeal their revocation and as long as you have professional evidence that says you dont have a dependency issue I dont see why you would not get your medical back. It might take some time but it is worth it.

I bought an airplane right before I applied and this last year has been the longest in my life but I recieved my 3rd class (not a special issuance!!!) med and SPC in the mail a few days ago.

DONT GIVE UP ON YOUR DREAM!!

Alright dudes, another request. I got charged with a DUI 15 years ago, all charges dropped. Went to my AME today for the first time since the change in the form and chose that I have been CHARGED with a DUI. All charges were dropped, I blew a .07 at the time, so no aggravated anything there. My AME wants proof the charges were dropped, I only have the paperwork that charges me. I have contacted the court, the police, the DPS.....all do not have records. What do I do??????

^^^ Agree- you will have to wait for a major until at least 10 years have passed. A regional that goes to Canada will have probs with a dui because it is considered a felony up there. 5 years after the offense you can apply for admission. You will get your medical back but it is a bit of a climb. One step at a time and stay positive. Good luck

Get legal advice.

It sounds as though there is a path for you to return to the cockpit.
If you really want to continue to pursue this line of work, you may want to consider other aviation related jobs which may get your foot in the door (airline dispatcher, sim/ground instructor, etc.) with an airline while you are working your way through "the system". Often airlines will hire from within so that may give you a slight advantage after your delayed start. The pending "pilot shortage" may work in your favor as well.
You might also consider (and I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ here) changing your APC screen name.

All that said, I have been recommending to those who ask that they look at more lucrative careers and then buy a plane to fly for pleasure. Lawyers and bankers seem to not suffer from their DUI's and they make plenty of money.

8

ask ame to defer your case to faa ... that means it will be filed and you will deal dir with faa staff at okc

If you are ever dealing with this type of issue there is a doctor called Bruce Chien. He is one of the best in the business for any type of medical issue. Look him up, don't lie to him, and do exactly what he tells you. He is very good at difficult case medicals and gives you a great chance of getting it back.

Soooo.

I got issued my class 1, the AME told me the FAA "might" contact me and want more information in 2 weeks to 4 months. He said the real issue was I checked "no" to DUI convictions (the old form) in 2000 for a FIII. I answered correctly at the time. (Wasn't convicted, charges dropped) The form changed and I checked yes this time and provided all the info I could. What will the FAA want if anything?

Find a good ame who deals with this, had a friend who had an issue and the ame helped.

I'm confused, exactly how did the form change for the answer to change?

Old Form: "History of any convictions involving driving while intoxicated, etc, etc

New Form: "History of any arrests and/or convictions involving driving while intoxicated, etc, etc

Changed 4-5 years ago.

What Rickair said.

Good to know!

That's good to hear. My HIMS AME is Fred Furgang out of Kendall-Tamiami Airport (KTMB). A great guy to work with. Just to let you know, by no stretch of the imagination are you the lone ranger in this process. Most of his clients are Part 121 guys, a few corporate jocks and a handful of GA aviation guys.


atp