PSA RTP insight/advice/what to expect
 

Hi all - I searched forums - my apologies if this has been addressed in other posts. I'm looking for some practical insights to PSA's RTP program.

Regarding PSA RTP - former Navy and Rotor. Live near CVG.

I have ATP Helo, COMM MEL, INST AIRPLANE - 3500 TT

130 real Airplane PIC and 65 Hours MEL PIC

So what can I expect as far as additional training and experience from PSA through the RTP program?

What is the most efficient way to get to 250 Airplane PIC through the RTP program? (120 hours). How long does accumulating 120 hours take in your opinion?

What does PSA fund?

"Most military rotor pilots qualify for the FAA’s lowest minimum restricted ATP. Although many of you have the 750 hour total time, you fall short of the 250 hour fixed wing PIC requirement or 25 hour multi engine requirement. PSA is partnering with VA approved SkyWarrior part 141 flight school and will contribute up to $23,000 towards your flight time requirements in order to achieve the R-ATP.
"

Once mins are complete - how long is PSA ATP CTP?Assuming its at either CVG or DAY?

Thank you - advice and insight is much appreciated!

CM23

Since you have all the appropriate fixed wing ratings you will have an initial flight and instrument currency check with an instructor and then after that it will be mostly on you to build the time. Skywarrior tries to pair you up with other RTP students building time so you generally fly with the same people.

PSA should cover all the flying expenses, though you would be on the hook for your room and board.

I've talked with guys who built your required time in 1-2 months. It's a lot of flying but you have nothing but time when your down here.

About the ATP-CTP, it runs Monday to Monday, I believe, with the option to take the test on Tuesday.

Pm sent

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Thank you for the thoughtful responses!

Pay post RTP
 

• "$55,000 first-year pay for new-hire military pilots" - where does that come from? Starting pay for new-hire First Officers is $38.50 per hour.
  
  
• "All PSA pilots receive up to $21,560 signing bonus" - is this true?
  
• "Over $16,000 in sign-on bonuses paid immediately, if you choose, to help fund your flight time requirments" - so in my case, with my 25 PIC MEL hours and rating already attained, I need roughly 120 PIC Airplane hours - sounds like PSA funds this - but an I misinterpreting this?
  
• Does PSA simply take the money out of your sign on bonus to fund the 120 PIC hours I would need?
  
• What would my no **** first12 months of pay look like?

Thanks!

I think I am telling you correctly- 38.50x75 (min guarantee monthly)x12 month+ the bonuses and estimates per diem ($1.75 per hour away from base) equal out to around 56k

PSA can give you an advancement from your sign on bonus to pay for checkrides, housing for the RTP training, or any external factors associated with it. That I know is voluntary.

I would plan on the low side for your first year pay being around 50k just as a very low ball. The way movement is going for FOs, you won't be on reserve very long so it will be easy to credit well above the 75 hr monthly guarantee

PSA offers $23000 up front to cover down on certs/hours. Anything in excess can be paid for either 1) our of pocket 2) via the bonus 3) gi bill.

Your first year is a tough number because
-You won't get paid while time building
-while at indoc you'll actually be paid 24x7 per diem with the 38.50 (or whatever the hourly wage is) x 75 a month. Expect indoc/initial training to least nearly 4 months from my understanding. After that, with minimal work (you just fly hours assigned, no trading/doing/overtime and your per diem thrown in I've talked with pilots saying they take home nearly $4k a month after taxes.

Regarding the pay for training, your balance has to settled prior to attending from my understanding. So they pull initially from the psa pot of money, then you.

If anyone sees something wrong with my above post, please correct it.

The up to $21,560 signing bonus is including an extra bonus for guys who already have a CRJ type rating. As an RTP expect the standard bonus of $16,560.

While in RTP and the ATP/CTP course you are not paid as you are not an employee yet. RTP you are on your own for room and board. In the ATP/CTP course they provide the hotel.

When you report to Dayton, pay starts on day one. You will essentially make min guarantee while in training, plus per diem while away from home. There are a few days here and there in training where they give you a short break and send you home (between Dayton and sims in Charlotte, and sims and differences in Cincinnati). You'll then go home while you wait to get scheduled for IOE. While home you do not get per diem.

Pay days are the 5th (covers pay from the 16th to the 30th of the previous month) and the 20th (covers from the 1st to the 15th of the current month). On each pay day you get half your hours paid. So while in training you'll get 37.5 hours at $38.88 an hour (minus taxes). On the 20th payday you get the per diem and any extra time you flew from the previous month. This is so you can make sure all your time is in before they close out that month. This means your 5th paycheck will always be smaller than the paycheck on the 20th.

For an idea of what to expect on pay...I started on the 8th of a month. During that first month they use 3.75 hours per work day to figure your hours. After that they use min guarantee. On the 20th we got paid for six work days we had in Dayton between the 8th and the 15th. So 3.75 hours x 6 days x $38.88. After taxes my check was about $765. On 5th we were paid half of min guarantee (37.5 hours x $38.88). They also threw in some estimated per diem in this check. After taxes my check was about $1,400. On the 20th the month after I started training we were paid half a month of min guarantee for hours and all the per diem for the previous month. This check was about $2,400.

I hope this helps give folks an idea of what to expect initially. PM if any RTPs have questions. I did not do the RTP program as I had built my fixed wing hours on my own, but I am a recently transitioned Navy Rotor Heads.


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"Skywarrior tries to pair you up with other RTP students building time so you generally fly with the same people."

But you're splitting the total flight time for each flight? A six hour day gets you three hours of time? Just wondering if these schools are trying to get away with you both logging six for a six hour day.

You may want to contact Greg of Skywarrior. Just call there and ask, tell them you have a question regarding the RTP. They'll be able to answer all the details on stiff within the program. He's returned my calls within 24 hours. Awesome guy.

They do have you both log close to the full flight time, but you have to do it a certain way so it is legal in accordance with the FAA regs. One person is it PIC of the flight and can log the whole flight as PIC time. The other pilot goes under the hood and will fly the majority of the flight as sole manipulator of the controls and can log acting PIC. The first pilot is the safety pilot and required while the other is under the hood. One is the PIC and required safety pilot and the other is sole manipulator of the controls so both are able to legally log PIC or acting PIC time. This is a pretty standard way flight schools have students build time. It might not be the best way, but it is legal.

Disclaimer: I didn't go through the RTP program, but I know a guy who has. I built my time so I could transition by flying around a friends plane for many hours.


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That makes sense. And that way you're splitting the cost of the plane and can build your hours at half the cost? Or get twice the time, up until minimums required to get your RATP. What I'm wondering is if they're trying to charge full amounts when you're really splitting it in half.

Not saying they're shady, but could see a shady school trying to charge PSA 4 hours of plane rental for Mark and 4 hours for John when they flew those 4 hours together.

I didn't go through the program, but my understanding of it is you are responsible for paying to get the qualifications you need to be ATP eligible. So you need your commercial multi-engine with instrument rating. This could be paid for by your GI Bill, out of pocket, or a reduction in signing bonus I believe. After that PSA is gooding to pay for the time building flight time until you reach your 250 hours of fixed wing PIC time (of which 100 has to be cross country and 25 has to be night).

Each persons case is a little different so the guys as Sky Warrior will take a look at your hours/background/quals and let you know what you need, what you will be responsible for covering, and what PSA will cover before you start. If you use the program there is a commitment, but I believe it isn't any longer than the bonus commitment. And let's be honest, being a rotor transition, the odds of a major calling you before two years is pretty low.

So, long story short, you or the airline (depending on the situation) only pays for the time the plane is flown. If two pilots go flying for four hours and are both logging PIC time, they only get charged for the four hours. It is the same as if you and a buddy went and rented a plane and both logged the time. You get charged for the time you had the plane, not what you put in your log books.


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Ouch, no love for us RW guys? You mean Delta and United aren't gonna see my time the same way as a C-130 guy?[emoji6]

But on day 730.... that call is coming!

We can only hope...


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Hey, just name me one futuristic movie where the flying machines have to use a runway to land. That's right, they all HOVER! :p

PIC Logging
 

I just finished RTP and waiting to start ATP/CTP later this month. Here's how 2 pilots are logging PIC time in a single sortie. One pilot signs for the aircraft and is the authorized PIC for the flight. This pilot never touches the controls and acts as the safety pilot for the other pilot who, after takeoff, dons the foggles and flies simulated instruments. Being that a safety pilot is a required crewmember at the simulated flights portion, the pilot who signed for the aircraft can log PIC time during the portion he/she acted as the safety pilot. The flying pilot logs the entire flight time as PIC under the sole manipulator rule, along with the appropriate sim inst time and cross country time. Bottom line, the pilot on the controls will log about 0.2 hrs more than the safety pilot per each sortie (taxi, takeoff, and land), the pilot flying will be the only one logging the x-country time.
The links below are to two FAA legal interpretation letters that the whole PIC logging system seems to be based on. Hope this helps.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

But as far as billing goes, only one is charged or they split it? 4 hour flight is billed 2 hours each?

Just want to make sure they aren't trying to double bill PSA or the students. As in a 4 hour flight, both are charged for 4 hours each.

RTP questions
 

In regards to the RTP, does PSA pay for the examiner fees? (VA does not) , also being that we have Commercial and Instrument ratings, do we need to take another written exam, if so does PSA pay for them (VA will not). Any insight on the day to day activity/ living conditions would also be greatly appreciated. (what does $400 a month room get you) thanks in advanced.

From what I've seen, your quote from sky warrior will include housing and the three check rides. I don't know details about the quarters while you're there, but they must be decent enough as two friends there now haven't complained about it.

I never saw the bill so I can't be 100% sure, but you report the hours you logged on a weekly and monthly basis to skywarrior which they use for billing PSA. PSA pays for per pilot per hour and not per aircraft. You fly a 4 hour sortie with another RTP pilot and PSA is billed for both pilot times that are logged at $75 per hour per pilot. Granted the safety pilot logs 0.2 less, and I assume charged 0.2 less. My understanding is that PSA is fully aware of this.
Skywarrior won't keep you from flying single pilot if they can't schedule you with another pilot, but flying single pilot is the exception, not the norm. As you can imagine, their margins on a single pilot sortie is extremely slim at $75 per hour, if there is any at all.

Examiner fees to the DPE is paid out of pocket, unless something has changed since mid-June.
The living quarters will vary depending on what's available when you get there. I finished RTP mid-June and they had one house, 2 bedroom/ 2 bath, and rest were in an apt complex. I'm not sure what the apt scenario is as I stayed in the house. Regardless of where you stay, there's two to a room. The house had min kitchen utensils, but enough to suffice, laundry, and internet. I imagine the apartments are the same. I heard the apts have access to a pool and gym. The house did not. However the house is less than 5 mins to the airport, where as the apt is about 15 to 20 mins.
I flew my butt off down there to finish as fast as possible, and I was perfectly ok with giving up the gym and pool for closer commute.
Let me know if I missed anything.

That's pretty accurate. I'm currently in the beginning phase of training at SkyWarrior. The living arrangements are pretty nice at the apartments. The drive to the airport is pretty easy, but it does take about 15 mins. I opted to bring a few essential items for the kitchen and a small TV. I would highly recommend bringing anything you may want for comfort. The company provided a new memory foam mattress for each person, some minimal furniture, washer, dryer and few basic cleaning supplies. We we're the first group to live in this apartment, so I'd imagine the beds will be reused. Most of the furniture was second hand, but totally adequate.

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Hey, all. I've got a little less than twelve months of active duty before my obligation is up and I would love to utilize the RTP. I'm trying to get a feel for how competitive it is to get an RTP slot. I'm an Army UH-60 guy, and being commissioned, have only about 260 military hours. But I do have about 250 of civilian time (much of it from a flight university). I'm hoping not to raise flags because I haven't been able to get much flying done in the Army (there's just waaay too many commissioned UH-60 guys and not enough flight hours).

From my understanding, at the end of the day you have to meet the r-atp hours. That would mean....

250 hours civilian (what certs?)
260 hours military

PSA will offer $23000 to help you meet the remaining 240 hours. Shoot me a PM, I can answer some more detailed stuff.

I made sure to leave all my sim time (even my part 141) out of my totals. Different people have different views on what our sim time can count toward of the 750 hours, but I'd err on the side of caution.

As long as you need 250 hours or less to meet the R-ATP minimums you should be fine, assuming the program is still available, which it most likely will be. If you are on the high side of that you may end up coming out of pocket or needing to hedge your bonus to pay anything in excess of the going allowed amount (currently up to $23,000).

Bubbles?
 

I'm hearing rumors that bubbles are starting to form at SkyWarrior and that it's taking much longer just to get past the private checkride at the beginning. Anyone have any insight as to what's going on and how to alleviate some of that? I've heard weather, maintenance, and other unspecified challenges.

Yep, it's Florida and it's Summer. Weather will continue to be an issue until Hurricane season ends. The slow-down with check rides was mostly from the tropical storm that came through in early June along with one of the local DPEs being out for several weeks.

The Private Pilot check ride is the only one that should cause any 'bubble' for someone that needs all their ratings and FW PIC time. Once you get the PPL, time building can be done concurrently while working in other ratings (Instrument Airplane and Multi).

I know you can't do much about weather. Hopefully that really is all that it is and if you hit a bubble prior to the private, it'll be smooth sailing the resort of the way out.


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Hi folks,

A buddy of mine thought he'd heard a rumor that Sky Warrior was having financial issues. Is this true? Hopefully he misheard, and it's some other school. As much business as they seem to have, I can't see how it's possible.

John

I'm not sure how anyone would hear about the financial status of a flight school. That's not something that they shout from the rooftops. I doubt that it's been an issue though. They have a pretty good mix of revenue streams. I'm sure their overall risk is pretty low. Plus, Skywarrior isn't the type of organization to spend money frivolously. If they were, they'd be flying newer planes!


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I've heard more to the bubble rumors from a friend who's at SW right now. Apparently it centers on the private checkride and SW has told PSA they are going to have to throttle back in incoming students because they can't keep up with the demands on the aircraft. Another friend of mine took a month just to get his private checkride done. The school and the airline need to communicate the realities of what's going on so we can make informed decisions. I don't know a lot of people that can sit around Pensacola for a few weeks not flying and not earning a pay check.


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Best advice. Find a school locally and pay for your private pilot certificate before you show up. The instruction is hard to come by. Once you get it completed you still have to wait for a DPE to give you a check ride. I had to reschedule three times for weather.

With your private done, you can jump right into time building while you work on the other ratings.

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A friend of mine is interviewing for the RTP soon... is there a written exam in conjunction with the interview?

The RTP interview is an absolute joke. The recruiter told me that no one has ever failed the interview. There is no written test, and the interview is done in a group so if you don't know the answer, anyone else can answer it for you. If no one knows it, they just move on.

It is nothing like the normal pilot interview.

Incorrect
 

While the interview is relatively easy it is NOT done in a group where anyone can answer for you. Questions are basic HR and STAR / Approach plate questions.

Thank you for the replies... his mind will be set at ease knowing there is no written.