Switching 121 carriers
10-16-2017 | 06:50 PM
#1
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 53
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Switching 121 carriers
Hey all,
I recently posted a very similar version of this post in the Envoy subforum.
Basically, I'm already flying at another regional as an FO and I'm looking to make a change.
I'm particularly interested in the AA wholly owned and initially I was looking at Envoy but after reading so many things about PSA's SAP I can't help but be curious...
If you guys don't mind, could I ask a few questions?
How probable is CLT out of training? What would be the best choice for base initially? - I plan on moving to base as well so as to not commute. I currently live in ORD.
Does everybody fly every type of CRJ? Or are there 200 guys and 700/900 guys? Which ones do you fly out of what bases?
Is the 20k approx bonus only offered with a 2 year commitment like envoy's is?
Do you guys have min daily credit?
Average credit for junior-ish lineholders? Days off?
Junior manning?
What does deadheading pay at?
How is upgrade time realistically looking? Would that change if I already have around 800hrs of 121 time?
Average reserve time?
Commuting clause or policy?
How does this whole allowance for commuter hotels work?
I learned a bit about the American benefits from talking with a couple Envoy guys, are PSA benefits the same? Is it the same at all wholly owned?
I've noticed that in the last 2 years PSA has opened 2 new bases right around the end of each year. Are there any plans for a new base? Anything west coast? or shared LGA/MIA/ORD bases w other AA carriers?
Are you guys really hiring 1000 pilots and getting 150 planes? Basically, is it all true that you guys are growing fast and upgrades are fast?
What is the reserve time for newly upgrades?
Dumb question, are your uniforms the same as AA? On the PSA website sometimes it shows pilots with a different uniform than the standard gray AA one that AA and Envoy use.
NOW some questions about SAP.... I've already read the things you guys do with SAP and frankly I can't believe it. I am tied to my company's schedule every month with NO liberty to trade or drop anything almost. SAP just seems to good to be true.
So... is SAP staying for good? I've read posts about negotiations going on or something... but is it probable that SAP could be no more in the future?
Is it basically once you're a line holder no matter how junior you are you can use SAP at your leisure?
Anything else you'd wanna mention to a fellow 121 guy looking to come to PSA?
Anyways, thank you guys for taking the time to read and answer if you do.
I recently posted a very similar version of this post in the Envoy subforum.
Basically, I'm already flying at another regional as an FO and I'm looking to make a change.
I'm particularly interested in the AA wholly owned and initially I was looking at Envoy but after reading so many things about PSA's SAP I can't help but be curious...
If you guys don't mind, could I ask a few questions?
How probable is CLT out of training? What would be the best choice for base initially? - I plan on moving to base as well so as to not commute. I currently live in ORD.
Does everybody fly every type of CRJ? Or are there 200 guys and 700/900 guys? Which ones do you fly out of what bases?
Is the 20k approx bonus only offered with a 2 year commitment like envoy's is?
Do you guys have min daily credit?
Average credit for junior-ish lineholders? Days off?
Junior manning?
What does deadheading pay at?
How is upgrade time realistically looking? Would that change if I already have around 800hrs of 121 time?
Average reserve time?
Commuting clause or policy?
How does this whole allowance for commuter hotels work?
I learned a bit about the American benefits from talking with a couple Envoy guys, are PSA benefits the same? Is it the same at all wholly owned?
I've noticed that in the last 2 years PSA has opened 2 new bases right around the end of each year. Are there any plans for a new base? Anything west coast? or shared LGA/MIA/ORD bases w other AA carriers?
Are you guys really hiring 1000 pilots and getting 150 planes? Basically, is it all true that you guys are growing fast and upgrades are fast?
What is the reserve time for newly upgrades?
Dumb question, are your uniforms the same as AA? On the PSA website sometimes it shows pilots with a different uniform than the standard gray AA one that AA and Envoy use.
NOW some questions about SAP.... I've already read the things you guys do with SAP and frankly I can't believe it. I am tied to my company's schedule every month with NO liberty to trade or drop anything almost. SAP just seems to good to be true.
So... is SAP staying for good? I've read posts about negotiations going on or something... but is it probable that SAP could be no more in the future?
Is it basically once you're a line holder no matter how junior you are you can use SAP at your leisure?
Anything else you'd wanna mention to a fellow 121 guy looking to come to PSA?
Anyways, thank you guys for taking the time to read and answer if you do.
10-16-2017 | 06:54 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
I sat jumpseat on mainline today with a TSA employee in the other seat. I was telling them about SAP and showed them what my schedule was like. I've basically held R1 since I've finished IOE except one month where I changed base and have basically SAPed into the same kind of schedule every month... long story short my schedule as an employee of 8 months was better than theirs and they had been at TSA for almost two years. In other words I didn't feel like working very hard this month as usual - 15 days off and 85 credit. They had 11 days off and 80 hours credit. 
10-17-2017 | 03:18 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 521
Likes: 0
Hey all,
I recently posted a very similar version of this post in the Envoy subforum.
Basically, I'm already flying at another regional as an FO and I'm looking to make a change.
I'm particularly interested in the AA wholly owned and initially I was looking at Envoy but after reading so many things about PSA's SAP I can't help but be curious...
If you guys don't mind, could I ask a few questions?
How probable is CLT out of training? What would be the best choice for base initially? - I plan on moving to base as well so as to not commute. I currently live in ORD. Very likely. It might take a month or so, but no longer
Does everybody fly every type of CRJ? Or are there 200 guys and 700/900 guys? Which ones do you fly out of what bases?We fly all 3 CRJ's interchangeable. You can look up the bases
Is the 20k approx bonus only offered with a 2 year commitment like envoy's is? Bonuses are essentially the same
Do you guys have min daily credit?3.5 hours
Average credit for junior-ish lineholders? Days off?No averages. Every one just uses the SAP to get what they want. Some SAP down to 65, others SAP up to 100
Junior manning?Sort of. They do JRM, but there is no reason to accept it if you don't want to. Personally, I like to SAP down to 65 with holidays and weekends off when we are short staffed and wait for JRM calls. JRM pays more, so it benefits me to do so.
What does deadheading pay at? 50%. Thats one of the worst parts of our contract, but we pay block or better on a leg by leg basis, and 100% cancellation pay on leg by leg.
How is upgrade time realistically looking? Would that change if I already have around 800hrs of 121 time?A few months, most likely. I would say that by the time you get 200 hours and get ready to upgrade, you should be able to.
Average reserve time?Look at the reserve grids that are posted here each month. 1-2 months in most places, about 5 months in CLT. We are growing quickly right now. Most new hire classes for the next 2 months are very close to full. A couple classes have a waitlist. Those that start soon will have 150+ pilots junior to them when they finish new hire training.
Commuting clause or policy?2 flights, then you are put back on your line.
How does this whole allowance for commuter hotels work?$250 a month. Use it as you please, submit the receipt, and get reimbursed. You keep the points.
I learned a bit about the American benefits from talking with a couple Envoy guys, are PSA benefits the same? Is it the same at all wholly owned? Most likely very similar
I've noticed that in the last 2 years PSA has opened 2 new bases right around the end of each year. Are there any plans for a new base? Anything west coast? or shared LGA/MIA/ORD bases w other AA carriers? Rumor has it that PHL will be next. No West Coast. PSA was offered LGA but refused it, took DCA instead.
Are you guys really hiring 1000 pilots and getting 150 planes? Basically, is it all true that you guys are growing fast and upgrades are fast? Still have at least 30 more of those airplanes coming, and hiring another 700 at least. Currently hiring about 30 every 2 weeks. Seniority list has increased by about 400 in the last year (hired more, but losing a lot to majors every month). Company wants us at 150 airplanes and 2200 pilots.
What is the reserve time for newly upgrades?Quite a while. FO time on reserve is a couple months. If you upgrade in 3 months, plan on spending a year on reserve as a captain.
Dumb question, are your uniforms the same as AA? On the PSA website sometimes it shows pilots with a different uniform than the standard gray AA one that AA and Envoy use. Old pictures before the AA/US Airways change. Same uniform now.
NOW some questions about SAP.... I've already read the things you guys do with SAP and frankly I can't believe it. I am tied to my company's schedule every month with NO liberty to trade or drop anything almost. SAP just seems to good to be true. Yup. That is how it works.
So... is SAP staying for good? I've read posts about negotiations going on or something... but is it probable that SAP could be no more in the future? The SAP is worth a ton of money to each pilot. If the company wanted to buy the SAP from us, they probably could. But it would cost them A LOT of money. Mainline pay with a seniority number at AA would be just the start of it.
Is it basically once you're a line holder no matter how junior you are you can use SAP at your leisure? Yes.
Anything else you'd wanna mention to a fellow 121 guy looking to come to PSA? Read these forums and don't just come on here and expect someone to do your research for you.
Anyways, thank you guys for taking the time to read and answer if you do.
I recently posted a very similar version of this post in the Envoy subforum.
Basically, I'm already flying at another regional as an FO and I'm looking to make a change.
I'm particularly interested in the AA wholly owned and initially I was looking at Envoy but after reading so many things about PSA's SAP I can't help but be curious...
If you guys don't mind, could I ask a few questions?
How probable is CLT out of training? What would be the best choice for base initially? - I plan on moving to base as well so as to not commute. I currently live in ORD. Very likely. It might take a month or so, but no longer
Does everybody fly every type of CRJ? Or are there 200 guys and 700/900 guys? Which ones do you fly out of what bases?We fly all 3 CRJ's interchangeable. You can look up the bases
Is the 20k approx bonus only offered with a 2 year commitment like envoy's is? Bonuses are essentially the same
Do you guys have min daily credit?3.5 hours
Average credit for junior-ish lineholders? Days off?No averages. Every one just uses the SAP to get what they want. Some SAP down to 65, others SAP up to 100
Junior manning?Sort of. They do JRM, but there is no reason to accept it if you don't want to. Personally, I like to SAP down to 65 with holidays and weekends off when we are short staffed and wait for JRM calls. JRM pays more, so it benefits me to do so.
What does deadheading pay at? 50%. Thats one of the worst parts of our contract, but we pay block or better on a leg by leg basis, and 100% cancellation pay on leg by leg.
How is upgrade time realistically looking? Would that change if I already have around 800hrs of 121 time?A few months, most likely. I would say that by the time you get 200 hours and get ready to upgrade, you should be able to.
Average reserve time?Look at the reserve grids that are posted here each month. 1-2 months in most places, about 5 months in CLT. We are growing quickly right now. Most new hire classes for the next 2 months are very close to full. A couple classes have a waitlist. Those that start soon will have 150+ pilots junior to them when they finish new hire training.
Commuting clause or policy?2 flights, then you are put back on your line.
How does this whole allowance for commuter hotels work?$250 a month. Use it as you please, submit the receipt, and get reimbursed. You keep the points.
I learned a bit about the American benefits from talking with a couple Envoy guys, are PSA benefits the same? Is it the same at all wholly owned? Most likely very similar
I've noticed that in the last 2 years PSA has opened 2 new bases right around the end of each year. Are there any plans for a new base? Anything west coast? or shared LGA/MIA/ORD bases w other AA carriers? Rumor has it that PHL will be next. No West Coast. PSA was offered LGA but refused it, took DCA instead.
Are you guys really hiring 1000 pilots and getting 150 planes? Basically, is it all true that you guys are growing fast and upgrades are fast? Still have at least 30 more of those airplanes coming, and hiring another 700 at least. Currently hiring about 30 every 2 weeks. Seniority list has increased by about 400 in the last year (hired more, but losing a lot to majors every month). Company wants us at 150 airplanes and 2200 pilots.
What is the reserve time for newly upgrades?Quite a while. FO time on reserve is a couple months. If you upgrade in 3 months, plan on spending a year on reserve as a captain.
Dumb question, are your uniforms the same as AA? On the PSA website sometimes it shows pilots with a different uniform than the standard gray AA one that AA and Envoy use. Old pictures before the AA/US Airways change. Same uniform now.
NOW some questions about SAP.... I've already read the things you guys do with SAP and frankly I can't believe it. I am tied to my company's schedule every month with NO liberty to trade or drop anything almost. SAP just seems to good to be true. Yup. That is how it works.
So... is SAP staying for good? I've read posts about negotiations going on or something... but is it probable that SAP could be no more in the future? The SAP is worth a ton of money to each pilot. If the company wanted to buy the SAP from us, they probably could. But it would cost them A LOT of money. Mainline pay with a seniority number at AA would be just the start of it.
Is it basically once you're a line holder no matter how junior you are you can use SAP at your leisure? Yes.
Anything else you'd wanna mention to a fellow 121 guy looking to come to PSA? Read these forums and don't just come on here and expect someone to do your research for you.
Anyways, thank you guys for taking the time to read and answer if you do.
That's a lot of questions, and I think all of them have been answered here many times.
About 50% of new hires at PSA now come from other airlines. We have new hires from just about every other regional in the last few months alone. Pretty typical. Lots of people make the jump to PSA.
10-17-2017 | 05:54 AM
#4
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 367
Likes: 37
I went over to PSA in the fall of '14 and quickly upgraded in May of '15 because I had the previous 121 time. A few years later I became a check airman and now I am on my way to Delta in a few weeks. A lot of guys at PSA get very comfortable but my advice would be to enjoy the SAP but upgrade as soon as possible, you never know when the music will stop. Also, would you rather have more days off as a regional FO or get yourself to your dream career making six figures faster? I just don't really understand the guys who keep bypassing upgrade, short term gains don't compensate for the far greater long term gains IMO.
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