Throwitaway

Alot of pilots underestimate how PBS is a gigantic gain for the company and will largely be a concession to QoL from the pilot group. Rule of thumb, if the company really wants it, it's bad for the pilot group. And the company REEEALLY wants it. SAP will be useless and you'll be working more with less pilots required to run the operation. But senior guys will tell you otherwise

Aquilotti1

do the trips you pick up in open time pay you over your guarantee?

Aquilotti1

do the trips you pick up in open time pay you over your guarantee?

PiedmontYS11

Yes, they do.

SetMCT

I'd like to agree with you but just like the other pilots on here saying how bad its going to be and doom and gloom I have yet to see one example of how it's going to be different, how it's going to be worse than we have now, and how SAP is supposedly not going to work. Care to share your insight and a few examples since you're really sure?

Throwitaway

SAP is a powerful tool because it comes after round 1, when all of the conflicted/ trips/legs from line bidding are dropped into the open time pot. There is a very large amount of trips/options to drop your trips with and swap into days you want to work / want off or drop garbage 12 hours trips for much better 23 hour trips. Or take a 18 hour 4 day and swap it for a 18 hour 3 day, earning you an extra day off. There is a lot of options because it is after round 1 and hasn't been built into a round 2 bid and assigned to other pilots (like republic airlines whos SAP experience is much less valuable than PSAs). All of your ability to fully utilize SAP is predicated on a deep stack of trips in the open time pot, which drive the ability for pilots to drop 2 trips for 1, swap to have a wedding/birthday/appointment etc, making the pot even deeper.

Now enter PBS. The entire reason for PBS is to greatly raise efficiency by totally getting rid of conflicts due to line bidding. The system will just build the schedule around vacation, training, mil leave etc, leaving little to no flying in the open time pot for you to SAP with. It completely neuters your ability to change your schedule (absent a straight drop ability). PBS makes the operation run more efficiently for the company, maximizing the amount of flying each pilot will do, reducing the total amount of pilots needed to operate the airlines schedule. This equates to (in regular hiring/staffing environments) an immediate shockwave of stagnation of upgrades and seniority progression across the board. AA needs to give more flying to PSA in order for PSA to need more pilots. And keep in mind, all of the pay rates, bonuses, quick upgrades are due to a temporary pilot shortage.

Every airline is rapidly patching the holes in their man power vessel, this problem will not last forever. PBS is a huge neutering of SAP and is a huge patch for the company. A gigantic give by the pilot group. The airlines are catching up with record hiring, the foolish pilots are the ones with a long career to go yet they hang out at a regional for a quick dollar. PSAs current version of SAP is industry leading. How can PBS make life better for 70% of the rest of the pilot group? The senior lifers are the only real winners here, and they'll be gone just around the time PSA goes back to normal pay rates or out of business, whichever comes first.

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Seniority is King, gEt YoUr TiMe AnD gEt OuT!

Slow2Final

Without taking a side in the argument, while "SAP" will be around after they implement PBS, it will be in name only. It will become dependent upon the reserve grid (per one of the LOAs included in the pay raises), so effectively all it will be is an incredibly stupid 24-hour first-come first-served.

It will also shift us toward every other airline in seniority being king for your schedule. If you're a junior lineholder, don't expect to get any decent/commutable trips. Whereas line bidding tends to give senior pilots one or two trips they might not want (and would therefore drop into the SAP open time pot eventually), PBS will let them cherry pick what they want and will award them in seniority order. Not necessarily unfair, but any benefit to being even the last round one lineholder now, will be completely decimated with the new system.

I say all of this as someone who would benefit greatly from PBS, if it's even around by the time I leave.

SetMCT

Ok. I see what you mean. I just don't think its really that bad.

SAP to me is a pretty good tool but....still is not the best thing after we learned to slice bread. Yes it does allow you to switch into different trips and move stuff around with a pot of trips leftover. Doesn't PBS do this in reverse order when you tell it the days you want to work, how many hours, legs, days, etc..? Both you end up with what you want. To me first come first serve and pilot trades are worth more than SAP. IF the company wants to be more efficient and I still get trips how I want them I'm not sure where the doom and gloom is? You're not neutered from getting what you want you just have to tell PBS what it is you're looking for. Then after the dust settles from that who is to say you can't trade with someone during the month or drop stuff you didn't really want with the line you ended up with?

I'm not pro PBS and I'm not pro SAP. I know a lot of pilots will defend the SAP hill but I believe there are other ways to get what you need. Do I trust the scheduling of this company? Absolutely not. That's not to say that I wouldn't agree with letting them run their airline more efficiently and adjust to how I create and get my schedule. After all you said it best... get your time and get out.

Slow2Final

It sure does! If you're senior enough. If you're not, start getting used to min days off, 0 commutable trips, and whatever days they need you to work.

That's generally been the draw with SAP and line bidding as we've had it for years. Once you have the seniority to get a round one line, you've had a much better chance at getting the days off you want, the number of days off you want, or the types of trips you want (or a combination of these). With PBS, at the bottom of the seniority to hold a line, you'll simply get whatever trips are left, and the system will likely be set up to utilize you as much as possible, regardless if it matches your preferences well or not.

SetMCT

Once you have the seniority to get round one line....exactly! Seniority always dictates scheduling. Same as it will be during PBS. Seniority is tied to everything in aviation. I understand the current system and I get to SAP every month. Nobody can say what is so terrible with PBS versus our system now. The company builds the lines now and then puts them out to bid in seniority. So what changes with PBS? They make them more efficient and you still bid in seniority.