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-   -   PSA CRJ 200 Skids off Runway at CRW (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/psa-airlines/47429-psa-crj-200-skids-off-runway-crw.html)

USMCFLYR 01-20-2010 07:47 AM


Originally Posted by mooney (Post 747657)
True but loss of anti skid should be cut-and-dry not to abort. Do you abort at v1, 140 knots with 3-4000 feet of runway remaining for an antiskid message, most likely blowing every tire and losing directional control, or takeoff and land somewhere with a 9000 ft runway where it won't even be a factor? I think it's clear.

I don't know about the CRJ200. I can tell you that I would never have aborted (above a 100 kts) for an anti-skid failure in my aircraft - even on the 13,000' runway that I came from last. In my post I certainly did not advocate aborting for any reason, especially at a high speed, quite the contrary. I was saying that in my experience (and aircraft) there were actually very FEW reasons to conduct a high speed abort. It would most likely lead to damage of the aircraft (and depending on what you were carrying on the aircraft) a simple abort, leading to hot brakes, leading to a brake fire, leading to a burnt up FLIR could eventually end in a Class A mishap :(

I will be interested in learning more about this mishap in the future and I'll *speculate* that there will be lessons learned - good or bad. ;)

USMCFLYR

winglet 01-20-2010 08:01 AM

The true hero of this story is the person who appropriated the 5 million for the EMAS. The world is full of unsung heroes that have that kind of foresight to improve safety usually against great opposition.

winglet

Twin Wasp 01-20-2010 08:14 AM

Just wondering, I don't know the answer. One part of the V1 equation is it's the highest speed you can reach, lose an engine, reject and stay on the runway and any overrun that is stressed for aircraft and as wide as the runway. (My dispatcher side coming out.) My question is, do they count EMAS in the equation? If you're runway limited and reject, is it planned that you'll go into the EMAS? And if so, what value does EMAS give you? Is 100 feet of EMAS worth 500 feet of normal pavement or what?

Rightseat Ballast 01-20-2010 08:17 AM

This crew may have done everything right in regards to decision making. However, there are a few gotchas that could have led to an overrun. If it was the f/o's takeoff, there may have been a lag in brake application if SOP requires the captain to execute the abort. That extra second or two of changing controls at high speed can waste a lot of runway, and everyone could have been doing their job correctly. Also, many pilots fail to apply full braking in an abort. If you never made it to V1, you may be even more inclined to apply moderate braking and induce an overrun. Lack of training in max brake application can easily be cited. How often have any of us really stood up on those brakes?

Wolfie 01-20-2010 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by Rightseat Ballast (Post 747684)
This crew may have done everything right in regards to decision making. However, there are a few gotchas that could have led to an overrun. If it was the f/o's takeoff, there may have been a lag in brake application if SOP requires the captain to execute the abort. That extra second or two of changing controls at high speed can waste a lot of runway, and everyone could have been doing their job correctly. Also, many pilots fail to apply full braking in an abort. If you never made it to V1, you may be even more inclined to apply moderate braking and induce an overrun. Lack of training in max brake application can easily be cited. How often have any of us really stood up on those brakes?

I have had to literally stand on the brakes once, for an arrival into SNA, but no harm was done. In a few minutes, I will be pushing back for a departure to Albuquerque, as Cactus 202...FlightAware > US Airways #202

Phuz 01-20-2010 08:46 AM

CRJ have autobrakes for RTO?

saab2000 01-20-2010 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by Phuz (Post 747700)
CRJ have autobrakes for RTO?

Nope. Not much automation on the CRJ-200.

B00sted 01-20-2010 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by 3XLoser (Post 747660)
I don't know anything about this airplane, other than that it has a cramped cabin, and that I don't like to be aft of row 8 since there's no tail exit. Is any part of the warning system inhibited above 80 knots? Just curious; no judgements.

Certain Warning and Caution system are inhibited when n1 is 79% or greater, weight on wheels. There is an initial and final inhibit, for airspeed less than 100 kias and airspeed greater than 100 kias.

DLAJ77 01-20-2010 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by Phuz (Post 747700)
CRJ have autobrakes for RTO?

yeap...its called one of the pilots

mooney 01-20-2010 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 747671)
I don't know about the CRJ200. I can tell you that I would never have aborted (above a 100 kts) for an anti-skid failure in my aircraft - even on the 13,000' runway that I came from last. In my post I certainly did not advocate aborting for any reason, especially at a high speed, quite the contrary. I was saying that in my experience (and aircraft) there were actually very FEW reasons to conduct a high speed abort. It would most likely lead to damage of the aircraft (and depending on what you were carrying on the aircraft) a simple abort, leading to hot brakes, leading to a brake fire, leading to a burnt up FLIR could eventually end in a Class A mishap :(

I will be interested in learning more about this mishap in the future and I'll *speculate* that there will be lessons learned - good or bad. ;)

USMCFLYR

Yeah I'm just talking the CRJ. Not you carrying around nukes and cluster bombs or whatever you had :) I misread you the first time and thought you were in favor of high speed aborts


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