Military
 

Just curious, how many military pilots join the regionals? I assume most if not all go straight to mainline, seeing as they have military jet time and experience.

Many


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Well, as a guy you're describing.....Many, and I mean MANY of us (army rw) are jumping ship at this program created by AA (envoy/psa/pdt).

I can literally name about 70 dudes putting packets together to make the jump.

It's an opportunity I never knew I wanted and others never thought they'd get.

There are several reasons military guys would go to a regional. Flying helos, low flight time, and lack of currency can all lead to the regional path before being competitive for a major airline.

Piedmont is hiring a ton of military guys with the thinking that they will get snapped up by American outside of the flow. Makes sense, I guess.

Regional Airlines are aware that many of the MIL guys will leave within a year or two. However, I think for the moment the market is such that they are willing to hire them knowing that.

I know of an F/A 18 pilot that Delta simply told, "go get 500 hours of 121 time somewhere". So he went to Express Jet. Last time I saw Chris in DFW, he said he was on his way out.

Another mil guy here, fitting the low hours category. Fighter time is hard to come by - almost 1000 sorties and still don't have 1500 hours so I'm on a restricted ATP ticket.

Direct from guys at FedEx, Delta and American: "dude, go to a regional. They'll hire you, you'll get the hours a helluva lot quicker than in a fighter and add 121 experience to boot." Plus, all I need is SIC to add to the TT category.

So...trying to time my exit and set up my interviews with PSA, PDT, Envoy and Endeavor. Add NetJets to mix as well, and then....I go into the 12,000 app hopper with everyone else.

As mentioned above - lots of different stories from mil backgrounds driving regional apps.

I'm another mil pilot who got out, went to a non flying corporate job and am pretty much decided on jumping ship at that job to go to a regional for a bit to get current.

I read these forums out of boredom at my current job and I see so many unhappy stories from people at their respective regional. I'm personally excited to get back into it and learn some part 121, but I am also told to go do this with the hopes my stay won't be long. We will see I guess! For now, I am just looking forward to not getting phone calls after hours, countless emails about useless metrics and dealing with drama that ensues with the people I manage at work :)


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Netjets has a lot of cool things about it.

But if your goal is to build flight time, probably won't happen as fast as a regional.

Again, if building time is your goal.

When the interviewer has a well qualified military candidate, I wonder how the question of "staying or bailing" is presented and how it is convincingly answered. Or do they even care?

A recruiter's job is to get people in the door, not keep people. They know the deal. And if they don't hire a mil dude bc he's mil and they are afraid he/she will get sucked up quickly by a better airline, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

They never asked... I'm fairly certain they know they are going to make back the training cost within the 6 months or so (minimum) that it takes you to get picked up at your career airline. I made the leap after almost 4 years out of cockpit -- paid off after flying a little over a year at a regional. Good luck friends.

Not to mention how many guys in a similar circumstance will take the same leap of faith after a success story.

I worked with a military guy who only wanted to work at Alaska. He spent less than 2 years in the regionals. I don't know how much time he had, but he was always taking about going to events that Alaska attended.

When we interviewed with Republic they told us they know most folks want to move to a major, and that they were OK with that. I had another interview and I asked them about the business model WRT high turnover. Response was "it works". I have lots of hours but lack currency, and the regionals are OK with that. I'm very excited about getting back in the cockpit. Almost every airline is hiring, which rarely happens. Great time to be a pilot!

That's valid, and in the calculus for sure. Most of my research is going into weighing the slightly slower rate of gaining hours at a fractional vice the QOL issues of commuting to a regional. I can drive to a NJ base as if it were an every morning drive to work; but also have a few options (depending on the regional) for direct flights to commute.

My problem is - I don't know what I don't know. And what I don't know about regional 121 life is somewhere around "everything." :D

At several of my regional interviews, they basically said, "we know you'll be leaving soon, we appreciate the time and experience you're bringing to our company, and we'd love it if you could give us a year to recoup our training costs invested in you."

No hard feelings from the recruiting/interviewing team at all, in fact quite the opposite.

I hear you on the "I don't know what I don't know"! I've been talking to all my military friends who have made this leap and have gotten plucked out by a major fairly quickly. I've picked their brains to probably an annoying state. As far as commuting goes, that's tough and I'm a bit scared to find out how that will go. Who knows where you'd get based but it is a part of that leap of faith we're all taking on this. Then, if we get picked up by a major, we'll probably commute again for a while until we figure the rest of our lives out :p

Why is it ok to be hired at regional with "low time" or "lack of currency" but not a major? Especially for a mil guy. What's the difference? Is it not the same job? Same mainline passengers, 90% of which haven't the slightest clue that they aren't even on a mainline jet. In the same airspace. Same weather. Same airports. Same controllers. Same everything. I would love to hear the logic.

It's simply competition for the best jobs. You're essentially asking why there are different hiring criteria between majors and regionals. They are more selective because they can be. It's not that military aviators can't do the job when they are out of currency, it's that there are plenty of current aviators available that are also trying to get on a major airline.

No doubt!

*Note: all of the below is opinion and based on shady, at best, assumptions based on reading.

It does seem like the reserve life at a major is less of a "beatings continue until morale improves" setup. I'm sure it's not still rosy - but two things. 1) there are many things I've read regarding reserve at a regional that I don't see come up with reserve at a major: junior manned being one of them. 2) the paycheck tends to ease some of the pain (unless you've set yourself up for a wicked commute to reserve. Not sure you can pay your way out of that?)

Its been explained to me that regional training is set up to take pilots with mostly piston CFI work and get them working in a high performance turbine world. In other words...slightly different pace than at a major.

Major airline programs that I have talked with people about assume that you have been flying 121 and know that part of the business and the training can be done at a much faster pace.

There is a marginal probability that a non-current mil pilot will fail 121 training and lose their job and carry a black mark on their record. The assumption (valid or not) is that the probability of them failing at a regional is lower and that will reduce the probability of them subsequently failing at a major.

Cool, possibly an EWR or PHL based regional would work.

This is true, although it can depend on the regional. As well as said regional's specific base/fleet. Some guys getting worked (flying a lot) and some guys spending a lot of time at home inverting bourbon bottles.

But listening to a legacy pilot complain about reserve is funny. Especially if their perspective/frame of reference contains ZERO regional reserve.

Going through a few of each, this is ALSO TRUE.

Do mil guys have a problem in training, NOPE. But a legacy's program is set to draw upon an already built foundation of experience.

What a mil pilot has to draw on isn't so much the stick and rudder skill set, they've ALREADY got that. It's more of the learning curve of the civ/121 way of doing things.

Again, it's not some rocket surgery, thousands upon thousands have done it with ZERO ISSUES.

It's just where they have to draw their stengthss from, as in learning something new and quickly, without much time or explaination, etc.

What is the main difference between regional reserve vs legacy?



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A LOT to type, but the work rules.

Days off, long call, etc.

Let's just say that even though a major/legacy pilot may complain about being on reserve, its way more "gentlemanly" than at a regional.

The post bankruptcy era has made great strides that way.

Military
 

When I was an RJ Captain around 1999-2000 flew with many new FO's straight out of fighters, etc. All extremely sharp guys. Majors were hiring and they got picked up quick. Every female with 500 PIC also.

It all goes back to "known product." Whether its the military or a college program or academy, the product or the syllabus is formal and known.
On the other hand Bill Bob's Flying School might actually turn out a better pilot, but there is no brand recognition.

Now if you are a pilot recruiter and went through an XYZ program which you obviously thought was good, who would you be partial towards?

Recruiters prefer stable, formal, known programs.

Thoughts
 

I'm a retired AF pilot, 3500 hrs in 135s and T-1s. Been out of the cockpit for about 3 yrs. Am contemplating leaving the corporate world and returning to the cockpit. Im operating on the assumption at regionals are a must given my lack of currency. But I'll be honest, the pay and lifestyle (commuting) seem pretty rough. Looking to hear from anyone who has gone down this road.

Every airline is different with respect to "recency of flying" but most seem to want to see you currently flying professionally. SWA seems to be the most relaxed with asking for 2 years of flying in last 5.

Lots of folks on the board are in the same spot that you are in. Same situation as those leaving the military from staff tours (including me).

Financially plan on 12-18 months at a regional. Regional will give you the most "points" on your application. Getting 100+ hours of recent turbine time as a professional pilot will also count but doesn't check the 121 box.

Biggest hurdle seems to be digesting the QOL issues that are certain when you return to flying. You will take a pay cut for the first 2-3 years (assuming you get hired by a major after 1) and unless you live or plan to live where you will be based - you will have to commute which cuts into days off.

The majors stress that they aren't hiring good pilots - they are hiring good leaders that also happen to be well trained pilots. As you write your applications - start now - highlight leadership in the air and on the ground. Each airline application is worse than filling in an SF86.

There's no cause of action for not hiring someone you don't think will stay.

Some observations from a longtime reader of this site...

I'm in the same boat. 49 year old retired military guy who has not flown in 3 years. Reading the extensive and wide ranging opinions on this site, I've come to the conclusion that the regional life will most certainly suck. However one must choose one that minimizes the suck to the greatest extent possible and then embrace the remaining suck until a legacy calls. Minimizing the suck is key and includes location (i.e. domicile/reducing or eliminating a commute), work rules, pay, and no training contract. For those of us in our position with the requisite turbine PIC time but no recency, flow is not as important as we are looking to move on way before flow becomes an option. In the end the choice of regional, save for a few bottom feeder companies, is a personal decision based upon your personal situation. That is the reason many people will resist giving out an opinion of which is the "best regional" until they know the specifics of your situation. Even then, different people tolerate different levels of suck. Like I said, except for a few bottom feeder companies, do your research and choose one that fits you best.

AFAIK, long call reserve (12+ hr call out) does not exist at a regional.

Thanks for the info. One additional aspect I'm wondering about which you may have some thoughts -- I've been a sim IP since I left the cockpit. Any carriers, major or regional, see that as an offset for recency?

No but regionals don't care. Go to a regional where you can live in/near domicile. Get your 121 time and currency. The 121 world is 2 completely different jobs depending on whether on not you commute. It is the single biggest QOL factor, in my opinion. Good luck

I'm also pretty much decided on leaving my corporate (non-flying) job. I separated a few years ago and thought I wouldn't miss flying. Been out of a manned cockpit (KC-10) for 4 years.

If you're like me and working a job right now where you are tied to a work phone, get hundreds of emails a day about I'm not sure what and can't ever totally shut the brain off from work in case there's an emergency, then it really puts flying into perspective about the skills/training we were given to put toward doing a job that I believe in the LONG RUN will allow for better quality of life.

Nothing's perfect in a job but being able to set the parking brake and truly be done for the day is sounding better so I can have quality time at home.


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Compass has long call reserve and they use it FWIW.

Not true, OO and Compass have it.

According to the spreadsheet one of the senior PSA pilots posts, they have long call reserve also. It appears to be more senior since guys would rather sit at home on 12 hour call out than fly less favorable lines.

I did not run across many USAF pilots that did not want to fly commercial, especially heavy pilots. The Army seems to be quite different. A lot of Army pilots think it is much better than the ground job they used to do, but have no intention of flying commercial.