Ranking the Regionals...
 

I'm asking for a friend. Since I've been employed by a major for over 8 years, I'm out of the loop.

If you had to rank the Regionals by who would be the best to work for and offered quickest upgrade and quickest chances to the majors, who would you put in your top five?

Is it best to work for a company that offers a flow through to a major, or a company that doesn't so you could apply and possibly get hired before someone who was stuck in the flow?

Thanks to all that reply.

You'll probably get every answer under the sun...

Piedmont
PSA
Envoy

Republic
Skywest

Depends on the background of the candidate- if someone has an application that is worthy of getting hired on by a legacy and just needs a place holder job they can go wherever. If they need to build their resume or like a decent backup plan that the flow offers then an AA Wholly Owned regional is worth consideration.

I posted that list taking into account the fastest upgrades at the Wholly Owneds and shortest reserve times. Piedmont also has the fastest flow by years currently Thanks to it being small and expanding. The downside is it's got one base for its jets and it's new hires to go to and for some people that's a big deal breaker.

The two non-WOs listed have newer equipment and I know folks who are happy at each.

The Flow offers a way into American Airlines. Realistically those in the flow can and do get hired OTS at AA but those are rare occurances but those who are hired OTS have applications that would make them competitive regardless. When 50-75% of AA new hires will be coming from their WO flow throughs and the remaining OTS slots going predominantly those with military backgrounds realistically pure civilian backgrounds have a much smaller chance of an OTS hire with AA than they do with United, Delta or SWA regardless of where they currently work. The flow through keeps the AA door open for folks while they apply everywhere else.

Most people can cross AA off their listing they don't work for a wholly owned. Flows take up a little over 50% of the new hires while the other 50%is made up of mostly military and family/higher up connections. Very few off the street hires that don't fit in the categories above are getting hired at AA.

I would put my order as;
1.Envoy (3 month upgrade)
2. PDT
3. PSA
4. Skywest
5. Endeavor

Again choose the one that gives you the best QOL, if you can live in base then that should be your first choice.

SAP.....Conversation over.

Edit: Unless you live on the west coast.

If your buddy is a pilot with a messy training history and multiple skeletons in his closet, he can still get to a Legacy by working for an American Airlines Wholly Owned Carrier.

And because American is the only Legacy offering this in 2017, it is undoubtedly funneling in some great folks. But, this makes you wonder what kind of pilot group AA will have in 6-10 years. :rolleyes:

Yes because AA WO acft are falling out of the sky right now......GMAFB.

You should listen to the north ramp frequency in Charlotte sometime.

Unfortunately I listen to it nearly every day I'm working. I know you are just going to say "it's not the same" because that's what people on here do but the same nonsense goes on in every other ramp freq at every major airport I've flown into.

HEAR IT: Pilot, air traffic controller have terse exchange - NY Daily News

I wouldn't even rank Endeavor right now. We no real career progression, that's been taken off the negotiating table. We are most likely going to have a pay cut for anyone who credits less than 85 hours per month. Get on with an AA wholly owned, have a flow in your back pocket, but stay hungry and try to get on at another major in the process.

Since most threads are posting in favor of the AA WO flow, I'll present the other side.

Personally, I am not as convinced on the AA WOs. I like how with airlines such as Republic and Skywest, it is possible to get a feel for the company culture of each Legacy that they fly for. One trip may be AA, and the next may be Delta, United, or Alaskan if you're going with Skywest. I find value in getting to explore the ins and outs of each company before committing to one. Then, when it's time to go to a major, I can make an informed decision on which one I want to fly for. With the WO you fly for American, and then you're trapped in the AA system. If you decide to leave the AA system then you're going in more blind than you would be otherwise. Right now, I am still a student working on my flight training, and about 3-4 years from starting a class at a regional. Right now, I want to work for Delta (which may be why I'm not as in love with the flows), but I also realize that once I get to the airlines it won't be all glitz and glamour. I want my regional to let me experience the industry, and get a feel for where I want the rest of my career to go. If I realize I don't want to fly for Delta, then I have learned that lesson before I commit to working for them.

Also, I've heard horror stories of the flow working backwards. For instance an exceptional pilot in the regionals was going through training for his flow, but made a mistake. Then he couldn't move up to the major but couldn't go back down because everyone had already moved up in seniority, and ended up being out of a job.

Overall, any regional will get you to a major. It's a relatively short term phase of life. If the end goal is to make it a major, any of them will get the job done, it just depends what you want to get out of it. Also, I'd say it's important to weigh all of the posted QOL metrics.

If you are looking for a 1-year or so placeholder (military but long time out of the cockpit) does the order of this list change at all?

The horror story would not happen at PDT. When you flow you placed on LOA and if something should not go well at AA you can come back and requal with your seniority as you left it.

No.

Depending on your military background- 1 year or so can turn into 3 years before your first interview invite. You want to continue to build your resume the whole time.

Regionals with the flow allow quick upgrades and movement in the seniority list which allows you to build hours, upgrade and take resume building jobs within the company.

And you know all this how? From flying a 172 or from your college recruiters telling you you will all be at delta in a few years?

This is a ludicrous statement. No matter what regional you're at, whatever colors that are painted on the side of your plane won't give you any valuable insight into the corporate culture of each respective legacy. That's ridiculous.

I disagree bigtime. Every legacy runs their operation differently. You can definitely get a feel for their day-to-day operations, even at the regional level. This includes how they treat commuting or nonrev crews, ground handling, procedures, passenger treatment, even something as small as the everyday word of mouth from the different mainline employees can give you more insight into their ops. Of course this doesn't mean you'll get a feel for what it's like to be a mainline employee at that airline. I understood what LUPilot was trying to say.

He didn't say anything about a non-compete. He said at a WO you don't get the feel for each legacy's culture like you can for other airlines. There's advantages to both WO and non-WO. This one is certainly a +1 for the non-WO, but is really only advantageous if you have multiple offers.


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It's always funny to me to see guys at airlines without a flow try to find reasons why a flow is a negative. Let's get this straight, there is ABSOLUTELY no disadvantage to a true flow. It doesn't restrict you in anyway. The only thing it does is GUARANTEE you a job! I'm sorry your airline doesn't have one, but saying that there are disadvantages to a flow, and that's a plus for a non-wo is just ridiculous.

PRO: Wait for your guaranteed job and apply everywhere else in the meantime. Can't lose.

CON: ALL the weirdos you fly with now will get to AA too and you'll have to fly with them forever! :eek:

Let me get this straight.......You get "a feel" for a legacy's culture because your contract carrier flies for them?

So a Delta gate agent(who is probably contract) gives you "a feel" for Delta's culture?

Who else do you deal with that gives you this "feel"? How in the world does it give you a "feel" for the pilot that will be sitting next to you at whatever legacy you go to?

I've seen some stretches and the AA/Delta WO have their own issues but WOW is this ever a stretch. "Go work for a non-wo to get a feel for who you will be working for".......You are going to go to whoever calls you first anyway.

Amen to this! Lol "Oh hello United, what you've decided to hire me? Why thank you but I worked at XXX and I don't like the feel and vibe of your place so I'll pass and wait for someone else to call me. Thanks" Probably not.. I'll keep my insurance (flow) policy in effect while I see what's out there.

Boutique
Air choice one
Via Air
Corvus
Elite
Silver
Seaborne


Not in this order

So I'm going to ASSume that you both work for a WO. You're telling me you can't gauge the culture at American or Delta (depending which WO) by working within their system? If you're answer is no, then you are either oblivious or don't have an understanding for what a corporate culture even is.

No one said by any means this would be a sole discriminator. It is certainly an advantage to being non-WO, however big or small. If you have multiple offers, it could be huge. If you have one then it's not even a consideration. You WO guys are blowing this out of proportion and exaggerating minute details.


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WOW! I don't think a Skywest recruiter could have said it better themselves.

Please tell me how on earth you get a feel for the culture of an airline by having their name painted on your acft and parking at their gates. Do you receive emails from a mainline? Do you talk to their pilots? Their FAs? Do you interact with their mgmt? Like I said you may interact with their agents now and again but I bet just as much you are dealing with contract agents/rampers. Since I'm so clueless please inform me.

I work for an AA WO and I still barely understand their culture. When I see friends that have flowed in the terminal they literally say "you have no idea, it's a night and day difference." This is with me working at an airline that AA has a vested interest in.

There is no way you get any idea of a culture of a mainline by working at like republic. I bet a good 50% of mainline pilots don't even know which companies fly their regional lift. It's absurd.

When you operate different code shares you see how they route their aircraft, the priorities they give to certain flights, and yes interactions with gate agents and how some work with the flight crews and others try to be hardasses (could certainly be station specific). Not every interaction with a gate agent or ramper is that of someone that is outsourced. You pay attention to the interactions of those that aren't outsourced.

All of this and more let's you glean how their operation runs from a day to day basis and from that you can generate an opinion on what you like from different code shares and what you don't like. This is strictly day to day operation. You're right though, you don't get the management emails and all that but that isn't the daily grind you get flying the line. All of this comes from the top down. A culture is set from the top down. You notice that some groups are more disgruntled than others.

I hope this makes sense and helps, otherwise I think we may have to agree to disagree.


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Again, a pretty big stretch to use as any kind of factor while deciding what regional to work for.

How they route their acft? Don't you have your own dispatchers for that? If you are referring to something else. If you work for XJT in EWR you are savvy to how mainline routes their acft in DEN, or LAX? As far as the structure I'd say the majority of "issues" happen some way or another because of something out of the mainline's control. Mainline route structures don't just break down without a major weather event, computer issue, etc. In the case of an event well, if I really need to see how United handled it I can just look on flight aware or any other similar tool.

I understand what you mean by top down but dealing with a delta gate agent in like ABQ is not going to give you any kind of idea what the pilots or FAs that affect your day to day life are going to be like.

If you absolutely must know then you can jump seat around the country for a day on each legacy and make you decision that way.

This whole thing is freakin moot anyway because like I said in my original post if you are sitting at skywest, or RAH, XJT.....Whoever and the phone rings with a representative from delta on the other end you sure as shti aren't going to turn them down because "I operated some CRJs at XXX airline for you. I don't care for your culture. I think I'll wait and hope United calls me instead."

No offense but not being in the industry yet has you pretty clueless, and it shows in this post. First off it's pretty rare for someone to operate under all carriers like you suggest. Unless your bouncing around from airframe to airframe and base to base. Which is also unlikely. You also don't get a feel for each airlines culture just by flying for them. You may get a feel for their flight benefits and how they handle customer service, booking, rebooking, and all that type of stuff that you see at the gate. You absolutely do not get a feel for the pilot culture and their management just cause you fly for them. I could commute to an AA wholly owned out of ATL and ride the delta jumpseat and get way more of a feel for that, as opposed to the guy flying delta routes and based in ATL.

As for your horror story with the flow, I'm calling BS. The PSA flow for example keeps you on the seniority list until you finish IOE at American. Therefore, if you fail then you actually just come back and keep your seniority and longevity. I'd also think that PDT and Envoy have something along these lines negotiated with the flow agreements as well.

Any regional will not get you to a major either. Just ask Mesa pilots, or better yet, their LEC. You've got a lot to learn still, but please don't base your decision off of trying to fly for multiple carriers at one place so that you can "learn their culture...."

I bet you guys criticizing the AA WOs -- even if AA had the worst "culture" of the big three -- would immediately accept a job offer from AA if given the opportunity. Let's not pretend it's a surefire thing that we can pick & choose our favorite major carrier based on corporate culture.

Pick the regional that has a base you can drive to.

It's really that simple.

This has devolved into an absurd discussion. It is completely irrelevant to learn the "company culture" of a mainline carrier while employed by a third rate, third party, bottom of the barrel subcontractor. Each pilot looking to move on should and will take the first employment offer at a suitable mainline, regardless of prior knowledge of "company culture."

Choose the regional that will take you to mainline fastest. Do NOT become too comfortable at any regional--their purpose is too cheapen mainline labor wages and provide a source of turbine expertise to inexperienced civilians. My advice working at a non-flow airline is to head off to one. The flow is just a good thing to have.

As a long time SkyWest employee -- this is just stupid.

I can't help but wonder if there is some serious trolling going on here...

Can we get back to the OP?

What / how would you rank your top 5?

A follow up - how would you rank them if you have to commute let's say up to a 3 hour 1 way.

Sent you a PM Ironman.

For ME:

1) PSA
2) Piedmont
3) Envoy
4) Endeavor
5) Republic or SkyWest

SunAire
Golden West
Muse Air
Wings West
Hughs Air West

LOL - how about airlines that are still in business. Not their descendants. If you are going to use that list why did you leave out Midway? :)