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Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ85FO (Post 131617)

I agree in principle, but there are several instances where there simply are not 10 seconds to slow down. It is fine to slow down when the situation warrents it. It is dangerous to get into the mindset that you always have time to slow down.

Hot Starts
Flight control failure or jam at rotation
auto-coursen failure with flaps
brake failure or anti-skid problem on landing
rapid decompression at altitude
trim runaway
smoke in the cockpit
etc, etc.
etc, etc

Hot start- Thrust lever to shut off. Pull checklist. Failure to act quickly costs money, but doesn't endanger lives.

Flight Control Fail/Jam - fly the plane, maintain control. Pull checklist

Brake Failure/Anti-skid fail on landing. Yeah, probably needs a memory item, although that depends on the aircraft type and effectiveness of the T/Rs.

Rapid Decompression- Oxygen mask don & 100%. Establish communications. Fly the airplane. Pull checklist.

Smoke in cockpit. Oxygen mask don & 100%. Establish communications. Fly the airplane. Pull checklist.

T/R Deployment in Flight - Fly the plane, maintain control. Pull checklist.

Just about every memory item out there can be shortened to 1 or two critical items, and then the rest of the procedure could be put onto a laminated emergency checklist (Quick Reference Checklist) that is completed before pulling the expanded QRH procedure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyerJosh (Post 131640)

Just about every memory item out there can be shortened to 1 or two critical items, and then the rest of the procedure could be put onto a laminated emergency checklist (Quick Reference Checklist) that is completed before pulling the expanded QRH procedure.

I agree, my comments were directed to the fact that in those cases, you don't have the luxury of starting a 10 second timer before doing something.

Loss of a generator at during cruise, sure, start the timer, analyze the situation, pull out the checklist and follow the procedure.

Brake failure on landing, I would like to see that captain start his 10 second timer before "doing anything".

How do you explain to the Chief pilot when you noticed that the engine was 960 ITT, but you started a 10 second timer before shutting the fuel off?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airsupport (Post 131551)

Like a captain buddy of mine says, "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast."

Sounds like a (former?) Marine to me...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ85FO (Post 131649)

all of that falls under "fly the airplane" brake failure on landing,, fly the airplane. pcu runaway, fly the airplane, stab trim runaway fly the airplane. now lets not be ignorant. of course on the ground with the parking brake on and sitting in the middle of the alley and starting an engine,, yeah i don't think that falls in the category i am talking about. what i am refering to is at 600 ft agl, or at fl380, fly the damn airplane, i promise if you havent had an emergency before and start going crazy with memory items and checklists and stuff then mistakes will be made. slow is smooth, smooth is fast. I was in the sim a year or so ago for recurrent and had a thrust reverser deployment on v1 which subsequently (within 20 seconds) led to the engine totally failing (rotor burst). The guy i was flying with was so busy trying to run the thrust reverser checklist that he didn't even realize the engine was gone!! NO N2 at all. had he got control of the plane,, stabalized and then took just 10 sec to assess the situation, he would have realized that the correct checklist wouldn't be the inadvertant thrust reverser deployment, but severe engine damage. You have to give yourself time for the adrenaline from the triple chime to get out of your system so you can focus on the task at hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharkyBN584 (Post 131655)

Sounds like a (former?) Marine to me...

that is correct. he said that this saved his life on many occasions while serving in iraq. doing it fast and sloppy costs lives, doing it slow, smooth, ment it was done right the first time (since a lot of the times there is no second chance).

How strict is American Eagle on their memory items?

Line Holder baby!!! Movin up in the world!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airsupport (Post 131551)

We would like to get our memory items down to 1... FLY THE AIRPLANE.. I have seen it quoted in several crm books and studies about how some senior captains (and i mean senior as in had been flying forever) would actually pull out a stop watch on their checkrides and when an emergency would start wouldn't do anything till it reached 10. They asked him why he would do that and simply stated it was because "I have yet to crash a plane when i hit my stop watch". there is a good lesson there. I have never had an engine failure at v1. i have never had a thrust reverser deploy at v1. but i have had an apu fire at 1000 feet on the climb out. I have had a bird strike after 1200 or so feet and had to intentionally shut down the engine. The best thing you can do is SLOW DOWN and fly the airplane. Doing a checklist fast is sloppy. Like a captain buddy of mine says, "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." You have time. Even with an engine fire or severe engine damage, you have time. Even on emergency descents. Our memory item is Oxygen mask don and 100%, crew communication establish. no big deal, get the mask on and then slowly and smoothly go through the qrh. You have time. I have seen in several instances (in the sim) where memory items can actually hinder the recovery from an emergency if you have to many of them and they are complicated. Number 1 fly the plane, number 2 take care of business. Its easy and works wonders.

On the MD-11 pretty much anything that has a memory item, and there are only 6 isn't dealt with until after flaps up.. fly first, memory item next (usually it's just "throttle idle"), then run the checklist which is pretty short in most cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck (Post 131280)

since i'm still working at getting in the ring what's a memory item?

A memory item is a checklist that you have to have committed to memory. You perform these in the event of an emergency, such as engine fire in flight, smoke in the cockpit, f.o. farts. Ok, so that last one isn't actually there, but it should be.:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck (Post 131280)

since i'm still working at getting in the ring what's a memory item?

To add to what's been said before, a 'memory item' is a procedure that is committed to memory.

If that situation happens, the pilot accomplishes the steps from memory...and then, if required, gets out his emergency checklist.

Depending on company, this procedure can get cumbersome.

For example, in a two man crew cockpit, we often designate the roles as Pilot Flying (PF) and Pilot Monitoring (PM). PM may also be called 'Pilot Non-Flying' in some companies.

In some cases, the roles are set out such that the PF says out loud the memory item(s) and the PM actually does them. This allows the PF to concentrate on maintaining aircraft control while the PM actuates the required item. For example, the PF would say 'Throttle - Idle', and the PM would retard the throttle.

At our company, on the Airbus there are 8 procedures that have "memory items" Common sense ones though: winshear, emergency descent, crew incapacitation...
A lot of the usual ones such as hot/hung start are done by the FADEC, and we just let it do it's thing, until it tells us what to do next

I believe the "other airplane" (MD-80) we had 9.

I can't remember the 1900, or the Saab, but there were a lot more.