I know 2 that flowed without.

You guys serious? I have a BA in business. Over 3k in hours. Currently an FO at a regional. Applied to all legacies plus the big majors. Still no one beating the door down. You need to upgrade as a captain in a 121 outfit. Get your LCA letter do a month or two on the line doing that and then I believe you’ll get a call from somewhere. Until then fly and learn. I learn every single flight. I wouldn’t trade my job for anything else but if I guess this so called “recession” hits I have the business backup. Hell if I know how to work in a office cubicle though.


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For anyone on the fence about getting a college degree, carefully consider the pros/cons of doing so. I personally think there’s far too much emphasis on everyone in society having a degree just for the hell of it, and the consequences of potentially going into significant debt for something you may never use are crappy.

If you’re young enough to be able to position yourself on a track towards getting hired by a WO with a true flow to a major without wasting considerable time and money on a degree you may never use, this would be an extremely attractive option. You can always work towards a degree online later if you really want to apply to another major. With that said, if the flying thing doesn’t work out down the line you may find yourself in a position where you’re ineligible for lots of other jobs because of a lack of a college education. As with anything in life, there are no guarantees.

Having a masters degree myself, I can attest personally that earning a BA and an MS did next to nothing for my career. My BA put me into debt but was a job requirement. Granted, I’m a mil guy, but it all comes down to YOU, and how you develop as a person. Some people seem to imply that going to college is more about the life experience. I think your attitude also goes a long way and you can control this without wasting time and money.

Do your research and choose what you think works best for you. And remember that timing and seniority are huge.

Cheers! Good luck.

Good post. Side note. Federal student loans cannot be discharged in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

Your degree enabled your career. There are essentially zero fixed wing mil aviator slots available to folks without a degree. Even if it's possible in the army, most people who compete successfully for WO slots have a degree anyway.

The MS checked a box on your airline app, and moved you ahead of at least a few folks who didn't have one. It's also essentially mandatory for promotion if you stay in the reserves.


I'm with Mike Rowe, in that we need more folks doing focused VOTECH training, vice racking up huge debt parting their butts off for five years to get mediocre grades and a liberal arts degree.

But as a senior military officer, I have realized in retrospect that many of the liberal arts components of my several trips around the higher education pattern have proven very useful in upper management, government, my civic responsibilities, and understanding my fellow humans and their societies.

I guess if I were to divert people away from the financial scam that liberal arts education in America has become, I would want to institute a focused social curriculum covering history, philosophy, psychology, and most especially government. It could be a condensed version I suppose, but people need to understand some of this stuff or we could be headed down a very dark road... fascists and socialists typically have no need for history or liberal arts, they can just write their own as needed.

Wasting time getting an education. When did we get to the point that getting more education for yourself can ever be a waste of time?? Directly causing your career success? That's a conversation. Learning new things being a waste of time? America baby

But are flight school loans (part 61) really student loans? Sallie Mae tends to treat them as unsecured personal loans.

I'm trying to figure that out.

I completely agree, but for those taking a vocational route that sort of stuff is what should be taught in high school. But funny that the government education system doesn't seem to want people to understand how the government actually works.


And for the record if it had not been for my NJROTC LCDR in high school I would have missed out on quite a bit of history, philosophy, and government even though I completed my BS degree.

I think you’ve missed the point. I’m saying that if someone’s goal is to minimize their time to fly for a major, there is a path that doesn’t involve spending time and money earning a degree.

If they still want a college education, they can get one at any point during or after once they’ve more or less secured their first goal of flying professionally.

I’ve come across plenty of folks with higher educational degrees that haven’t left high school intellectually speaking, and plenty of genuinely intelligent people who, for one reason or another, didn’t go to college. It just comes down to the person. You can (and should) absolutely knock yourself out learning things without shelling out tens of thousands a year to do so.

Not trying to digress from the original point of the thread, other than to advise the young pups that it’s possible to come up with a plan that meets their goals without potentially going into significant extra debt.

Technique only. Cheers!

Flow programs have a long history in this industry... and almost all of it is bad. Very bad.

Only time will tell if it's different this time around, but anyone who's been around would not feel comfortable hanging your career hat on a degree-less flow.