Which regional to get back on career track?
 

First post but been "creepin" APC since 2006.

Long story short, worked at a few regionals throughout the years but thanks to poor managment, bankruptcies, and furloughs, my flight times are still pretty low for my experience. Typed on the three RJ's, part 135 and 121 experience. I want to get back to the airlines. This time, though, I'd like to make an informed decision on where I go instead of picking the first company that offers me a job.

Which brings me to this:

Which regional should I consider as a good one? I know there really is no such thing as a good regional. Just looking for insight in to
1. Quality of Life/Work Rules
2. Benefits: how good are they where you work?
3. Potential flow: yes/no?
4. Upgrade: with prior 121 how long, realistically?
5. Domiciles: Prefer something in Central time zone.
6. Pay: What is the approx NET income for 1st-3rd yr FO's?

Been to END, RAH and XJT in the past.

Preferred options:
1. Envoy
2. Skywest
3. Horizon

and maybe options:
4. Compass
6. Commutair
7. PSA
8. Piedmont
9. Mesa (but everyone in aviation knows their reputation).

1800TT
500tMEL

SKW is still filling classes, so they are not paying as much as some others (still way better than your previous regional life). They are working folks like dogs, I stayed at SKW for QOL, and fortunately was able to get out when the page turned on that. If you want to live in one of their bases and build a lot of time, it would be OK.

Horizon has very lengthy upgrades. Risky to try to get to a major without PIC.

Mesa... just don't.

If the domiciles work for you, I'd look at an AA regional with flow.

Current PDT CA, see bold for answers. feel free to pm me any other q's you may have.

Edit: I apologize, i didn't realize you asked for NET pay. That would greatly differ based on your personal circumstances; Figures listed are gross.

Horizon junior Q400 CA is a 10/17 newhire, not even off of new hire IOE yet. That doesn’t seem like a long upgrade to me...

Pick a regional with bases you like living in or wouldn't mind commuting to. Central time zone leaves ORD, MSP, DEN, DTW among others. Those are junior bases for SkyWest, Air Wisconsin, and Envoy (I think.)

Better tell the cities of Detroit and Denver they are in the central time zone because I don’t think they got the memo.

Horizon has people upgrading before they are off IOE if they have the total time. One of them is on this forum.

To the OP: You know if you go back to EDV (if you left on good terms), you get your longevity back that you had when you left?

I would say a wholly owned personally. If you must go non wholly owned, SkyWest and Republic are the only options I'd say are viable. I'd put the AA and DAL wholly owned carriers above any of the United ones and with the forced upgrades to NYC I'd put Envoy at the bottom of that list.

Three regionals and a 135 gig, three jet type ratings and only 1800TT and 500TMEL? Be prepared to explain that to the recruiters when you talk to them. I understand the lost decade was a different time, but don’t be surprised if their first reaction is to think you were terminated during probation at each airline until you explain it.

Are you flight current at the moment?

Depending on your answers, you may not get to pick who you get to work for for your first job back in 121 as much as the company may pick you...

This is honestly my biggest concern. While I know I'm in good standing at all prior employers, it's hard to know exactly which company works for you and how they run their ship until you actually jump on board. At that point, you either take it or leave it. Either way, it sticks with you.

Not 121 current, ATM, but I've never had any issues or failures during training, never busted a check ride or knowingly/intentionally violated a reg. FAA/Pilot record is blemish free, other than the work history at a couple of regionals that just didn't suit my life. Unfortunately, that is an HR blemish.

The low times with three types comes from starting my airline career with 650(?)TT back in 07. Rough times during the recession and didn't even attempt to go back until 2015. Even then, I took the first one that called without knowing too much about the company. (Example: 2wks into INDOC at EDV and was told the company consisted of Pinnacle and Mesaba crews....#mindblown) LOL. I was so anxious to get back flying that I just mass submitted resumes and took the first thing.

Regrets are like.....well, I've got'em. I'd like to learn from my failures and move forward with my life and career before I'm too old to do anything about it.

Really enjoying all the responses from everyone, too. Keep'em coming.

So you left Endeavor after two weeks because you didn’t like the heritage of their crews? I’m not sure any mid 20s/30s HR professional screening your application is going to understand that... in recent history (since at least 16) Endeavor has been a highly regarded airline on the regional level.

The part I find about your path most intriguing is that XJT was a top regional back in the day and now Endeavor is the top regional for pay/QOL and Republic has a new contract that puts them on parity in two more years.

What I’d worry about with your resume is the appearance of a lack of follow through professionally.

The good news is that most of the regionals you listed are desperate for pilots and will give most anyone a shot at training and let the dice roll.

If you’re even remotely serious about a 121 career I’d probably tell you to stick with the AA Wholly Owned regionals unless you’re going to be content being a regional lifer elsewhere. Unless the pilot shortage gets pretty bad your historical lack of ability to stick it out in 121 jobs is probably going to make a major leery of you unless you have years of solid work history at your next regional... and even then it could be a crap shoot. You probably want to go someplace with a no interview flow through to a major as a backup. The AA Wholly Owneds are the only ones offering that. If you apply to all three, my guess is that one or two will offer you an interview.

If he wants to come back to Endeavor he might have to wait a while. We more or less have stopped hiring because we have so many applicants and people in the training department. Someone interviewing today wouldn’t get a class until mid-late summer. They’re also considering doing one class a month to keep up and get more captains through the training pipeline faster. A lot of people have been reporting on our threads lately about getting a thanks but no thanks email after submitting a application who are very qualified and even former 121 guys.

One BIG issue I had with END, while in training, the van driver at the "other" hotel was flat out dangerous when driving the hotel van. Once, coming back from the training center, he took a 35mph clover off ramp at 60mph. Threw all the bags off the rack, knocked everyone over and almost rolled the van. Several of us voiced our concern to the hotel mgmt, Yelped a review about their driver, etc.

All of us were contacted by the AssChief and told to remove the reviews or we would lose our positions. It was a matter of us safely getting to/from training that was the issue and they threatened us with our jobs when we voiced the opinion. I'd have to double check, but I heard the van driver was fired shortly after. Not from being reported as unsafe but for actually wrecking.

Also, I started flying 121/135 back when you could hired with 700hrs. The "great recession" had a lot to do with the low times after that as it took me several years to get back on our (my family's) feet. That was rougher than I'd ever wish on my worst enemies.

Anyways, 1100+/-hrs in 121/135. XJT and the 135 gig both ended in furloughs and were outside of my control. The latest two 121 gigs, I honestly should have done more research before attending their class dates. As my wife says about the nursing field, when they start offering sign on bonuses it is just a sign of how bad/poor/(insert something bad) about how the company/management are running the place.

While I am very serious about my career in 121, I am also very serious about which one I go to. Worst case scenario, I stay until retirement. I want to make sure it's a good place to be at for that long. Only get one life. I intend to make the best of it, regardless of how the cards may fall.


Other also, I really appreciate all the info and opinions on this. It is really helping along my research and decision. After reading some pretty disheartening things about ENV, I may actually take them off my list, even though they offer the best flow. That closed thread of Envoy Info where Dacuj threatened the pilot? Yeah, I'll keep looking in to them but that's pretty bad.

Thanks again, everyone.

I imagine this wasn't because you complained but because you used yelp and didn't contact the company directly about it. That is something you contact the company about, not post publically.

If you quit a job because of a knucklehead hotel van driver, this probably isn't the industry for you. Just saying....

Furloughs folks will understand.

For your own sake I hope you’ve got a better reason to say that you quit during your next interview than a bad van driver and the company counseling you for not using the proper procedures to give feedback about contract hotel vendors... if an interviewer hears that they probably won’t even want to ask what happened with RAH. They may just write you off as a fickle malcontent and add you to their do not hire list.

You seem pretty wired to quit at the first time of adversity or things not going the way you want them to. You’re right that Envy probably isn’t a good company for you because of that. I’m not sure any of the ones you listed are... maybe Skywest... maybe...

Truth be told, it’s taking me a long time to get over how I handled the RAH issue and the END issues. I’ve had a bad habit in my life of being a bit impulsive on the job stuff. Having a family that has income needs doesn’t help. Pretty much, if they call I’d interview and due to bills, mouths to feed, etc, I’d end up taking the next available class for fear of not hearing anything back from another carrier.

Believe me, if I could go back and do it all different, I would. It’s not for lack of trying, rather more of an analysis paralysis type thing where I have tendencies to overthink situations.

The END van driver situation was a pretty big issue, considering the number of people that rose voice about it. As much as I wanted to say something, I kept a low profile.

The reasoning for heading rob RAH was mostly domicile selection. One of their bases meant no commuting. I’d take that over any dollar valued sign on bonus. Period. Would’ve been great if I could’ve mustered up some grit and held through that first year.

I’m only human and make mistakes like everyone else but that doesn’t mean I’m ever going to quit going after what I want in life.

Thanks for all the info, everyone.

You don't have to go regional, unless you want too. If you want to go into the big stuff, I seen post for Kalitta Charters 2, flying 727 cargo.
If you can fly a 727, any company will hire you. Give that a shot.

You do understand, you don’t choose an employer, they choose you, don’t you? That isn’t in jest. If you don’t want the job, don’t apply.

Sounds like you have decent flying record (no busts, violations or accidents) but, from a retired chief pilot’s view, a horrible work record. I’ve viewed hundreds of resumes, your’s would stand out for a lack of persistence and effort to make the career work. The furloughs are explainable, working somewhere for a few months and gaining nothing but a type without meaningful experience isn’t.

You need to show a record of success, even if it means suffering a little. That said, I took a “flyer” on a pilot without more than 18 months at one of seven jobs including a Fortune 25 bank. It worked out for both of us, I got a pilot for 7 years and a friend. He did create some needless commotion at times and I saw why he never lasted long, but he stuck it out and became a steady employee.

GF

That’s pretty cool that it worked out in the end. Sometimes all it takes is a few small victory’s to make it successfully. It’s also good to see that there are people out there willing to take the chance, too.

My saving employment grace since getting in to aviation is running my own business for 8.5yrs.

Also, I completely understand that the employer chooses the employee. I’m just hoping that one of the employers that I’m more interested in is willing to take that chance on me. I’m tired of failing at my dreams. Not only am I letting myself down but also my wife and kids. Trying some due diligence on the companies this time around. Rather than a mass exodus of resumes and apps, I’m trying to focus on one at a time.

Sometimes the timing in life is off just a bit and you get stuck at all the red lights while everyone else gets the greens.

I’m far from perfect but I am persistent. I’ll keep reaching for my goals.

This is a bizarre thread. I'd have to wonder how long the OP would ponder, delay, and equivocate the go-around decision at DH, if he wasn't ENTIRELY sure if he had the runway environment in sight?

Some people are better suited to occupations that are more clear-cut and aren't governed by the laws of physics and aerodynamics. Where you have time to safely indulge a penchant for analysis paralysis.

It's been eight months since this thread was started and you are still waffling.

I'm not sure aviation is the right career for you.

Im still “waffling” because I have contractual obligations that are not concluded until 12/31/2018. It’s worked for 8.5yrs but things in that industry are changing in a way that makes my business model obsolete and unable to profit. However, until that dead line, can’t do anything.

You may think I’m not suited for aviation. Okay. Your opinion. I’ve lived a life filled with people like you that said I’d never make it as far I have. You’re not the first to doubt me, nor the last, and I’m certainly not going to quit on my dreams because some anonymous keyboard warrior doubts me.

You can speculate all you want on my ability to aviate and decision make but your words mean nothing unless you’ve flown with me. Not saying I know everything but I’m one of those guys that does know what I’m doing and I never stop learning.

The topic is which carrier would help to get my career back on the move. Let’s get back to that, shall we? Only have a few weeks left before I start interviewing. 😜

Okay then, what have you been doing for the last 8.5 months?

After 8 months you still haven't made a decision? Go read some of the other threads. They're hundreds of similar topics.

I run a business. Have for 8.5 years now. Have until 12/31/2018 until contractual obligations with clients comes to a close. I don’t see a problem with planning ahead, though.

Been reading a lot about the companies, talking with specific airline employees, random pilots at the airport and so on.

Had one carrier say TBNT and when I spoke with them via phone as to what I can do to better my future chances was told “don’t tear up your personal vehicles. 3 totaled vehicles in a two year time frame? How can we expect you to take care of our planes?” Lol! That’s the nature of my business. I go places others don’t and sometimes, my vehicle doesn’t survive. All but one were rentals, too.

Wasn’t sure where they even saw that info but have learned LexisNexis is the only background check that provides that sort of information.

Airlines fly when and where the GA guys won’t go to either. They bring up a valid point. No one cares if you get 76 people to Fargo on time in a blizzard with 50 knot crosswinds if you can’t re-use the airplane afterwards. Sometimes you have to know when to say no. The fact that you totaled two rentals is a pretty huge red flag. If you’re going to be doing crazy stuff at least do it with your own vehicles.

Never mind......

I’m not trying to be a jerk but honestly you need to go to wherever will give you a job and stick it out accident incident and behavior problem free. Once you’ve re-established a positive work history in aviation you might have a shot at somewhere more desirable. Airlines are desperate right now but you can’t expect to have your pick with the history you have.

Which regional was this? You’ll probably have to go down to the bottom feeders like Mesa and Gojet. They won’t care about your vehicle history or anything else that doesn’t legally disqualify you.

Aviation is great for people that are procedural.

Finally, some sort of advice. Thanks.

Lol. Mesa. Mesa cares. Which is kinda funny, IMO.

Of course they care, they have over 1200 pilots and if any one of them crashes an airplane, it could mean the other 1199 are out of a job.
I am sorry, but I have zero empathy for you. You are not some one that truly cares about being a pilot. If you were, you would of sucked it up, lived with your initial choice, made the best of it, and conducted your life in such a way that wouldn't scare off potential employers. Nearly everyone else on this forum pretty much conducted their life to make this career work for them, and you keep leaving employers over quite frankly, stupid reasons.

Best of luck going forward. I know Air Wisconsin has been rolling the dice on a few new hires that got overlooked elsewhere, as long as they have a good attitude. Might be worth an app.

Lol. Wow. I don’t recall asking for empathy.

Thanks! Looking in to them, too. Not to excited about KCAE being junior (two leg commute) but if I I have to do it, then it will be done. Just not ready to settle, yet.

That's 2 months away, you should have actual applications out by now for that timeframe.

Except you HAVEN'T planned ahead.

Planning ahead would have meant interviewing six months ahead of your time of availability and - if you found someone insane enough to hire someone with only 1800 TT, who is non-current, who destroys rental cars for a living and quits regional's for trivial reasons, who was actually desperate enough to offer you a CJO - you could have accepted the offer and deferred until the new year.

Planning ahead is NOT delaying interviewing until November when your actual availability is going to be 1 January. Even if you did find an HR department willing to take a $45 -50k gamble on you, they almost certainly won't have a class opening for you before March and likely even later.

I probably shouldn't ask, but have you even gotten a Class 1 physical yet? Do you actually HAVE an ATP, or are you planning on getting that too AFTER you're hired on? Which would generally mean even more unpaid lead time before you start getting paid training.

Not if the procedure is totaling someone else's vehicle.

Much, much faster to get a class date. 2-3 weeks from CJO seems to be the norm.
I think Compass is the only exception to this.
I 100% agree with you though, delaying interviews is a horrible strategy.