rickair7777

You are absolutely correct, I did not say that. You can merge the pilot groups without merging the operating certificates, but the company would never have a reason do that unless forced to by the SKW group voting in alpa.

Understand this, cuz I'm not sure you do: If SKW votes in alpa, the pilot groups are MERGED at that moment (since both are now alpa)...the default is by DOH, so most FO's at ASA will be ahead of most SKW FO's. You can negotiate some details (like fences) but ASA would have no reason to give up their DOH seniority...they would laugh in your face. You need to be real clear on how this works...

JetJock16

I do understand, the merger of the two pilot groups would take time (i.e. US/AW) and it is the only part of voting ALPA in that I fear. I understand that ASA is a relatively senior airline and merging the two pilots groups would turn out bad for almost all SKW pilots.

rickair7777

The US/HP thing bears watching...I'm VERY curious to see if cactus gets stapled in the end.

JetJock16

True, history has proven that any pilot group that mergers with US will get the short end.

bender

I thought the ALPA policy of list integration was no windfall for either group?

RedeyeAV8r

What a load of crap........
You have no idea what you are talking about.
The USAir/ PSA merger went DOH and so did the USAir/Piedmont merger (except there were fences on the Piedmont 767)

BTW, ever hear of the Allegheny/Mohawk clause in most ALPA contracts??
Care to Guess what USAir's name was before USAir?

RedeyeAV8r

Care to state what ALPA merger policy is or what you think it is?

Generally all mergers go to a nuetral arbitrator.......who makes the final decison on seniority integration. If it is between 2 ALPA carriers, then ALPA National stays out of the Picture. If it is between an ALPA carrier and a NON ALPA carrier then ALPA National will provide RLA lawyers and staff to the ALPA group.
The Pilot group that isn't covered by a contract (i.e. UNION) is usually at a disadvantage. That is it in a nutshell.

ghilis101

a DOH integration with SKW and ASA definitly favors ASA because theyre a much more senior group, but that would take a long time to sort out. You probably wont be at SKW by the time that happens. So get your cad in to at least get the process started. Movement is starting to happen at ASA so that is also a good sign, so youll have a less disgruntled group over there.

YAKflyer

Rick you usually are spot on, but in this post you are incorrect on several points. First JA will NEVER merge the two companies because it will remove the ability to whipsaw the two pilot groups against each other. We can end any other discussion here for that reason, but I want to correct you on another points. Should SKW pilots vote ALPA to represent them, there WILL NOT be an automatic integration into one large seniority list without SKW management agreeing and they won't do that because of the first point I made. The only way to get one list without ASA and SKW companies being merged would be to sue for single carrier status with the National Labor Relations Board. This would be done by the pilots of both groups because they feel they would be stronger in dealing with management with a larger unified group. Should the board agree the two companies are a de-facto single entity they could award single carrier status at which time the two groups could join together. An example of this happening is when the different Eagle groups forced AMR to treat them as a single group. Lastly you are wrong about ALPA policy requiring DOH integration in the event of a merger. Point in fact is ALPA merger policy says one group can not be given a windfall over another group. The most common integration will have a pilot at the 50% of his list end up at the 50% of the merged list. At the big airlines this would be adjusted for aircraft size if one airline had bigger planes than the other airline. The sky will not fall for SKW pilots if they vote ALPA in.

JetJock16

Easy, at your age you might have a heart attack. Simply correcting is enough, you don't have to blow out your depends! LOL