ERJ-170 Hopefuls! Brush Up On Your Inst. X-Check!
04-04-2007, 05:19 PM
#31
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: E-190 Leftist
Posts: 300
Thanks for the heads up - not that I'll be on the 170 anytime soon, but just because it's always good to learn about the differences between aircraft. I've flown in an A330 sim, and the flight director is pretty idiot proof, and looks quite similar in the command bar mode. There's a mode on the 330 that is similar to the single cue, but I think bank indications are a little clearer, from the little I can tell from the above pictures. Anyway, I'm always up for some technical tips...keeps the ole noggin working in flying mode while I'm doing this whole college thing.
04-04-2007, 06:57 PM
#32
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: KC-135T
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by ghilis101
good point jock. but shackone was being nice enough to throw the warning out there, and some people are obviously struggling with it. that thing does look intense but with the proper training, yes every pilot should be able to adapt.
tanker bob - you may have a lousy AP and that Pacer Creg (sp?) mod may not have fixed everything, but you guys have more thrust than you know what to do with on those ridiculously huge engines
tanker bob - you may have a lousy AP and that Pacer Creg (sp?) mod may not have fixed everything, but you guys have more thrust than you know what to do with on those ridiculously huge engines
Yes we do!
But the FD and Autopilot still sucks, 'specially when ya'll come in alittle fast!
04-05-2007, 11:01 AM
#35
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 747RJ
Posts: 441
E-Jet FD works great, and does exactly what you tell it. At RW, F/D and AP use are VERY HIGHLY encouraged.
It's VERY important to know EXACTLY what the airplane should be doing, and how to program it to do that.
It's a simple plane to fly, but you need to know how it thinks. In G/S it's easy to get wrapped around the axel for automated flight, even though the application is much easier. Think about reading a book for Windows versus sitting down and clicking away. Same principle here.
Don't be intimidated and have fun!!!
It's VERY important to know EXACTLY what the airplane should be doing, and how to program it to do that.
It's a simple plane to fly, but you need to know how it thinks. In G/S it's easy to get wrapped around the axel for automated flight, even though the application is much easier. Think about reading a book for Windows versus sitting down and clicking away. Same principle here.
Don't be intimidated and have fun!!!
04-05-2007, 11:08 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
Originally Posted by JerrySpringer
E-Jet FD works great, and does exactly what you tell it. At RW, F/D and AP use are VERY HIGHLY encouraged.
It's VERY important to know EXACTLY what the airplane should be doing, and how to program it to do that.
It's a simple plane to fly, but you need to know how it thinks. In G/S it's easy to get wrapped around the axel for automated flight, even though the application is much easier. Think about reading a book for Windows versus sitting down and clicking away. Same principle here.
Don't be intimidated and have fun!!!
It's VERY important to know EXACTLY what the airplane should be doing, and how to program it to do that.
It's a simple plane to fly, but you need to know how it thinks. In G/S it's easy to get wrapped around the axel for automated flight, even though the application is much easier. Think about reading a book for Windows versus sitting down and clicking away. Same principle here.
Don't be intimidated and have fun!!!
04-05-2007, 12:06 PM
#37
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
Originally Posted by shackone
Here is a more familiar type of single cue flight director:
The 'bird' that you refer to are the yellow command bars that move laterally and vertically to indicate the desired direction of flight. The aircraft symbol (the orange triangle) is flown to tuck into the bottom of the 'bird'.
In the ERJ-170, the 'command bars' are represented by the magenta flight directors...either the dual cue 'crossbars'...or the single cue magenta diamond.
Other than for takeoff, the single cue FD is used.
During takeoff, the black 'airplane symbol' is flown to the intersection of the magenta crossbars. That provides the needed lateral and vertical guidance.
Once above 1000'AGL, we change to the dual cue FD...and when flying it, we no longer reference the black airplane symbol. It is ignored during normal flight, and the FD becomes the primary reference for desired flight path performance.
The flight path is the green circle and shows actual flight path angle above and below the horizon. It is flown such that the magenta diamond is maintained inside the circle. The green circle is 'where you are' and the diamond is 'where you want to be'.
Unfortunately, it is a lot easier said than done.
The 'bird' that you refer to are the yellow command bars that move laterally and vertically to indicate the desired direction of flight. The aircraft symbol (the orange triangle) is flown to tuck into the bottom of the 'bird'.
In the ERJ-170, the 'command bars' are represented by the magenta flight directors...either the dual cue 'crossbars'...or the single cue magenta diamond.
Other than for takeoff, the single cue FD is used.
During takeoff, the black 'airplane symbol' is flown to the intersection of the magenta crossbars. That provides the needed lateral and vertical guidance.
Once above 1000'AGL, we change to the dual cue FD...and when flying it, we no longer reference the black airplane symbol. It is ignored during normal flight, and the FD becomes the primary reference for desired flight path performance.
The flight path is the green circle and shows actual flight path angle above and below the horizon. It is flown such that the magenta diamond is maintained inside the circle. The green circle is 'where you are' and the diamond is 'where you want to be'.
Unfortunately, it is a lot easier said than done.
This is the old stuff we had in the -80.(Keep it between the "legs")
Also, the "bird" (single cue) is a little more difficult in comprehension as stated. You don't "follow" it, you "place" it where you want to go (sort of).
Clear as mud!
04-05-2007, 12:37 PM
#38
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 394
Originally Posted by STILL GROUNDED
Thanks for the input Shack. I head to training in May. Is flight director use required or prefered?
The 'book' talks more about levels of automation than it does use of the FD...max automation is desired although proficiency is expected to be maintained in degraded levels of automation as well.
In practice, FOs can expect to hand fly their single engine ILS on the sim check. CAs usually can fly their first S.E. ILS coupled to a miss and then another hand flown S. E. ILS to a landing.
Because of the 170 sensitivity to yaw inputs when flying engine out, a crosscheck that is centered on raw data really pays off.
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