Those don't usually give an accurate picture of what pay is going to be like a couple years down the road.

[MENTION=81881]McCringleberry[/MENTION]:

Here's Republic's TA summary: https://i.imgur.com/kslJFMT.png

Here's Endeavor's pay progression over the next few years: https://i.imgur.com/e9vC63D.jpg

So, someone who's going to be a new-hire in the next month or two needs to look at what captain pay rates are going to be like in 2020/2021.. not 2018. In Republic's case, there's a huge jump. Just going to the Airline Profiles on this website alone would be very misleading.

Edit: One thing that just looking at the rates doesn't include: Open time pay. i.e. picking up extra trips that no one has claimed. Republic by default pays you only your base rate (100%). i.e. 45$/hr on year one FO pay scale. Endeavor pays you 150% (1.5 * 50 first year = 75$/hr). This is where you can get quite lucrative on EDV's pay rates, which are already higher, if you're willing to work more. They have some FO's that are clearing 100k/year due to this combination. Captain pay can be silly good for this reason as well. The downside is you're likely going to have to "pay some dues" and do the commuting to reserve in NYC out of training for a bit if you go to EDV. Short term pill to swallow, big payoff later.

You don't even have to work much more to see some benefit. Have a 20 hour 4-day, but see an overlapping 23-hour 4-day in open time? Boom. Swap it out, and you're getting an extra 4.5 hours of credit without adding any days to your schedule.

This is for lineholders, correct?

Yes, that's correct. Reserves can pickup work from open time at 150%, but it has to be on a day off.

Still a tough choice.

Both have really good pros and cons.

Great thread to see and read. Same boat, CJO from 9E and YX. I live GSP and cant move though so comes sitting reserves for a year plus (want ATL obviously) or getting a line quicker and building time faster with Republic. Sounds like both places have high morale and QOL.

Commuting to reserve isn't a short term pill at 9e. It's probably going to take a year for a new hire to hold a line if things don't change drastically.

Wouldn't I be able to hold DTW reserve shortly after training? In that case I would be reserve sitting in base. That's not so bad, is it?

If you're ready for it, then no, it's not.

NYC has stagnated on the FO side, particularly on the bottom, so folks in the middle of the NYC reserve pack are sitting reserve longer than anticipated. Some folks are (understandably) disappointed about that.

When Delta announces their DCI plan [insert "next week"/"next month"/"by the end of the quarter"/"on the call"/"by e-mail" here], things should start moving again.

The junior DTW FOs on both the 200 and the 900 are April hires.

What does that mean?

It's all about expectations that were set when someone started.

If one was given the expectation that they'd commute to New York for reserve for three months before holding a line there, and then they ended up commuting to New York for reserve for eight months, then they probably would be unhappy.

If one was given the expectation that they'd sit reserve in base at home, and then they ended up sitting reserve in base at home, then they probably would be happier.

Got it. I'm mentally prepared for either scenario. Maybe I'm missing something, but I think that gotten given the current choices, a few months of reserve, commuting or not, to be at a company like endeavor is well with everyone the short term pain. What's a few months out of decades of flying?

So trying to compare some scenarios:

So in terms of start and finish times as a line holder... There's not really a big difference between: 1) having to commute to a line from DTW to a line in NYC with endeavor..

Vs..

2) Living at an outstation base like CMH which has almost always a 5 am start, and a late finish the last day.

My time away from home would be similar, would it not? Assuming that the DTW to NYC and back commutes start and end of the trip is easy, and I hear that's one of the easier ones.

It depends. If your New York trips are commutable, then time away from home sound similar. If you have a 6am show in New York, though, or if your New York trip ends at 10:30pm, then you can't commute on the same day. You can set your bid preferences around making your schedule commutable, but it's not a guarantee that you won't have a non-commutable trip here or there.

Endeavor has a major loss of commutable 5 day trips going from August to September. Our 4 day trips are generally not commutable unless you are senior enough for the really good ones or live somewhere with very very good commuting options like DC, Boston, or anywhere we fly a high speed to that AA also flies to.

I ended up going with Endeavor. It was a tough choice, but I feel good about it.

My top two choices too...
 

These are my top two choices as well, as of right now I only have a CJO from RAH. I’ve applied at EDV but have not been called yet. I live about an hour east of STL, which puts me just under 3.5 drive from IND, 4.5 drive from ORD and MCI. From what I saw all the flights to IND would go through MCI or ORD, so that would probably be easier to drive. As far as commuting goes it seems like RAH would be easier.

I’m not sure what you’re looking at but IND-MCI/MCI-IND flights are not common by any means. To my knowledge they would only be for repositioning (due to weather or some other random unknown) or MX. RAH seems like a good option but I’ll be honest... A 3.5 hr drive (to/from IND) multiple times a month will likely begin to wear on you pretty quickly. I think you either need to consider GoJet in STL or go to YX with the understanding you may need to move to base eventually.

Good for you, I'm sure your choice was difficult as both airlines have many pros. What airline did you come from? What made your final decision?

First 121 gig here.

I ended up going with 9e. If I get the 200, training time is longer as there are delays sure to fewer line check Captains on that fleet, so I can enjoy the free time off with great travel benefits. My SSN is also extremely low. Either way, I can bid for airframe change after 18 months.

My base of choice; even long term, is DTW. I'm ok sitting reserve longer if my wife can be closer to family that way so she has support while raising our kid while I'm gone. Upgrade time there looks like about 2.5 years. I'm good with that.

Also, if I went rpa, I would have gone Columbus. But as an outstation, I would have had early starts and late finishes on either ends of the trips. Hub flying typically has better schedules, and easier use of travel benefits, which are already better at edv anyway. Score one more point for DTW.

Endeavor has been the industry leader on many things lately. That speaks volumes for the company. I haven't talked to a single person there who regrets going, and I've talked to five personally over the phone that were my Alumni.

Finally, the earnings potential at Endeavor is higher. Higher pay rates, and lucrative soft pay rules in their contact that always favor the pilot.

Even guys sitting in reserve typically credit 90-100 hours.

One of my buddies is a 2.5 year Captain on reserve, and is making about $9500 gross a month right now. That's over 100k a year.

Before that, he was an fo averaging 14-17 days off a month and making 75k.

Can't complain about that.

Finally, if I go to DTW, I won't have to move my family again like I would if I went to RPA. DTW is a 9e base, a Delta base, a spirit base, etc. And it's really easy to use Delta travel Bennies out of DTW and fly direct nearly anywhere.

That's my reasoning anyhow.

I’m not trying to chase upgrade times ASAP, nor a major asap. I’m enjoying the journey, and my whole family would be happy if we can start growing some roots near dtw.

You applied sound logic to basing your decision, as they both appear to be solid companies, I'm sure you will be happy. Good to see guys aren't just chasing upgrade times, and are concentrated more with the mechanics of how they would like their career to progress in conjunction with family and QOL, as opposed to temporary bonuses, and recruiting gimmicks.

I didn't know EDV gets travel benefits across all 3 majors like RPA does?
What makes Edv benefits better?

You don't get access to all three, but you get higher priority on Delta non rev than you would as a Republic pilot

They are better on Delta, but not by that much. There are still a gazillion people who will get on before you. Plus, if the Delta metal is an RPA aircraft, you get priority over EDV or even Delta mainline pilots.


I like having benefits across all three. The flexibility it provides is outweighs having slightly higher priority over other regional pilots on a single Major.

So you are saying they are a lot worse than Republics.
You are still behind Delta people on Delta flights, and I think only one step above RPA on DL and EDV metal, but behind RPA on RPA operated DL flights.

Thats how I thought it was (and that was a big reason why I chose Republic over Endeavor).

While that's true, edv still gets priority over Delta retirees and their family.

That was a fairly recent change. As far as I know, edv is the only DCI carrier that can make that claim (for now)?

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Still. I'd much rather have DTW as a base and move there without having to move again than go to Columbus.

To my family and me that's a huge benefit.

I won't lie. The 175, no ready reserve, and duty and trip rigs did sound very appealing at rpa.

However, my family really wants to grow some roots in the town we are moving into for very specific reasons.

That's something that I just can't get at rpa. Like I said, very tough choice.

What I've learned is that there's no magic bullet. I was going to have to make a compromise somewhere.

Sounds like you made a very good choice for you and your family. You’re right though, there is usually never a magic bullet and life is always all about compromising!

I have to say, getting to choose between EDV and Republic is a very "happy problem" to have.

I suspect "Mesa or GoJet" threads would have a very different tone :D

OP specifically wants DTW. Endeavor flight benefits certainly are better if you want DTW. Mainline Delta dominates DTW, and Edv has higher priority on them than any other regional. And with so much Edv metal also in DTW to use benefits on, it kind of makes the distinction obvious.

STL-LGA and STL-DTW direct flights are out there. For LGA you have DAL (VIA 9E it looks like), AA, an WN flights each morning for commuting to work. Looks to me like 9E would be easier with flights available direct to every 9E base.



As someone already pointed out, the benefits 9E has on Delta are worlds better than RPs benefits on any airline. Being above retirees is massive for 9E pilots, plus 9E has positive space second flight for commuting.

I've never had any problems finding a ride using all three. Plus it dramatically increases your international options. I've heard that EDV doesn't like it if you use that positive space option too often.

Low SSNs aren’t good at Endeavor. They use the method Delta does to determine class seniority. The higher the number, the more senior you are.

I'm well aware. But it's only for class seniority so whatever.

If I decided not to go to an airline because my class seniority was low... I mean..

That's a pretty horrible reason to not go to an airline.

Upgrade Time
 

How does most junior upgrade time compare at both these carriers? Is JFK crj200 at 9E still as soon as you hit 1000 hours? Will Republic's upgrade time drop to around 2 years flat or is 2.5 still the norm?

At YX the latest junior upgrade is 2 years 8 months from DOH in EWR. LGA is close behind. PIT is being held after an additional 6 months. I've heard a few times that upgrade time may stabilize around the 2 year mark, but that's certainly no guarantee.

Go to a company with FLOW, it’s Guaranteed!

Yes it’s contractually guaranteed - may take 8 years, but they can’t take it away at any point! Oh wait...