Endeavor or Republic?
 

I have a class date with Republic in September and a class date with Endeavor in October.

I have nothing tying my family down with where we are right now (Midwest). I plan on moving to my base before class starts.

I'd be shooting for CMH for Republic or DTW for Endeavor. If the crap hits the fan with the economy later, i'd be fine with living near either of those bases for long term.

FO pay is nearly the same. By the time I hit captain at either, the captain pay scales would be the same. Upgrade time is about 3 years for each base at each regional respectively. QOL seems to be good at both.

Am I missing something? Both seem like equally good choices for someone in my position.

All things being equal in that case go to Endeavor if you have a 4 year degree... you’ll at least get an opportunity to interview at a major someday.

Was October the earliest class date for EDV?

I think you've got it down to two good choices.

I started at Endeavor a year ago. I'm having a good time at my first 121. The pay is good. Almost everyone here is great. Long call reserve is a nice touch once you can hold it. I like flying the 900.

Another pilot from my neck of the woods started at Republic in the fall, and she's enjoying things there. She flies all over the place, and the E-jet is nice.

The wholly owned thing was a deal breaker for me, but Republic isn't going anywhere. Good luck whichever way you go!

They’re both good choices. You’ll be fine going to either.

For perspective from a Republic person, we have better work rules than many regionals. Things like block or better pay come in handy. I just gained 2 hours of pay in the last 2 days for overblocking flights. As an FO I gained seniority very fast and always had 14-17 days off, except for a few months that I decided to work some more and so I had 12-13 off. Credit per month has always been between 82-112 hours a month and I’ve held weekends off for a while. I’m home based which makes a big difference too. Good job deciding to do the same.

The flying is varied and often less regional. Especially the United flying which takes us out west or on longer routes so you do less cycles per day.

The airplane speaks for itself. Embraer did a great job with it. Reliable, easy to fly, and packs that keep you from sweating or freezing ever. Seems like a small detail but I’m much more happy when it’s not 100 degrees like some RJ counterparts are experience. In 2.5 years I’ve seen 2 deferred APUs. I’ve seen 10+ on deadheads on CRJs.

People get hired from RPA all over. I think this year and the next will be a better indicator than years past. Upgrade has come down quickly thanks to people moving on.

Either way, you’re making a good decision. Good luck.

Both are good places...Endeavor has great open time pay rules that can allow you to make a ton of money if you hustle, even while on reserve. Most guys you talk to here are routinely crediting 100-120 hours of credit per month, even as commuters. Over 150 is possible living in base (but with a family you wouldn’t want to push it that far). Endeavor has good schedules as well, maybe not quite as great as Republic due to the lack of the trip and duty rigs (except for our commutable 5 day 25 hour rig), but still better than average. Average credit is about 5:30 per day per the bid packs which means you’ll get about 16 days off a month, unless you are a very junior lineholder (bottom 5-15%) and part of the credit push (which they give you 89 or so flight hours instead of 75).

Regarding the aircraft, Endeavor is overwhelmingly a 900 operator, with talk of more dual class aircraft coming soon. The pros of operating the 175 also apply to the 900. Rare to have any MELs (Delta basically throws money at maintaining our planes) and the air conditioning works great on them too. Lots of long legs as well.

DTW is still a senior base but one of the easier hub to hub commutes to NYC for the 2 or so months you’ll be based there as an FO potentially and 1-2 years as a captain. Bar none we have the best commuter policies amongst all the regionals...5 day commutable trips, positive space 2nd attempt, alternate deadheads, ability to commute in during reserve call out window and early release.

Endeavor has an excellent training program as well, especially in the FTDs and sims. I understand Republic is now AQP which is great.

Thanks for the replies!

Seems like both are excellent choices for my criteria. I have zero interest in commuting both now and in the future, and it sounds like I'd have to commute to NYC as a captain at Endeavor for a year or two until I could hold DTW? Even with a good commuter policy, i'd rather avoid it entirely.

That's one of the reasons I'm giving such strong consideration to Republic. I could move to CMH and avoid commuting for my entire time.

I still have some time to decide. Thanks for the input, ladies and gents.

bf

I say endeavor but don’t bank a lot on Detroit. It’s still a senior base sorta. You’ll get it within a few vacancies but not in ground school as of late. Not as senior as MSP but prepare to commute to New York for a bit and New York when you upgrade for sure.

Got it, thanks. I think I'd rather go to Republic and get CMH instead, then. Lower cost of living, same pay, no commute. Seems like a winner for me. Appreciate it!

If you can avoid having to commute, I’d choose Republic. It really does make a huuuuuuge difference in QOL. Especially when sitting reserve.

The great thing about this job market is we have choices! Before finalizing your decision l have one piece of advice, and that is to find out the upgrade time at Republic in CMH and compare that directly to the upgrade time at Endeavor in DTW (the latter of which is about 2 1/2 - 3 years). That way you’re comparing apples to apples. Endeavor won’t force you to upgrade and commute to NYC when you’re eligible, you can stay in DTW with what will surely be by then a great schedule.

It's 3 years for CMH at YX currently, and about 3 years at EDV at DTW from what I can tell.

Either way this sounds like a *really* great dilemma to have. I'll mull it over for another month or so until I get closer to a class date, but I want to have a place to live lined up and be able to move to *before* I start class regardless of where I go. I don't want to have to stress about trying to coordinate a move between class/ioe/reserve.

I really do appreciate everyone's advice. Both some like solid choices.

I know the market is changing, but I think the guaranteed interview with DL is worth a lot. In these times I don't see a good enough reason not to go to one of the wholly owned regionals for either an interview or a flow. You still can apply and interview elsewhere, but having a guaranteed shot is a big plus in my book.

I wonder if that's where the 35/65 split is coming from. Is that DGI at endeavor really worth that extra bit?

I'm seeing places like Spirit and Jet Blue raise their pay to almost match the big 3. The entire market is being lifted by a rising tide, which I *think* would cause an upward movement at most places.

May not be a big factor, but how are the non-rev travel benefits between the two?

Endeavor had pass travel enhanced this year-

Companion in lieu of spouse or domestic partner, travel priority above retirees and any other DCI carriers/Delta Global Services for mainline flights, fee-free for everyone except domestic partner or companion (even parents are fee free, up to 3 oceanic crossings a year).

I don’t know much about Republic but the benefit there is you’ll have access to all three mainline partners travel benefits if I’m not mistaken. Sure, benefits will be watered down, but 3 times as many options to choose from.

my guess is and only a guess republic will have to offer another carot in very short order( ie flow) as FO reserve coverage has fallen again drastically

Who are they going to offer flow to? They aren't a wholly owned.

from what i understand they came out of bankruptcy a couple years ago
being owned by the big three. each owning a 25% share

This is still such a hard choice. The Endeavor recruiter told me that they have class dates available as early as August, but that I'd like need to spend somewhat close to a *year* being based in NYC as an FO.

No matter how good the commuter policy is, this is a huge turn off when I can go to RPA and avoid that scenario altogether.

Fake news... review the other thread that has actual dates of most junior reserve pilots and lineholders in other bases. It’s much less than a year. Quoted from there for your convenience:

JULY

Base/Aircraft/DOH Junior Pilot/ DOH Junior Lineholder

ATL/200/Mar18/Dec17
ATL/900/Oct17/May17
DTW/200/Mar18/Dec17
DTW/900/Jan18/Sep17
MSP/900/Jan18/Aug17
NYC/200/NH/Dec17
NYC/900/NH/Sep17

Bear in mind training takes 3 months. So for example, most junior ATL 900 FO is 6 months post IOE.... DTW 900 3.

Oh that's much more bearable, then. Not sure why you call it fake news, though. That phrase is getting so old. That's what the recruiter (Zack) told me on the phone today, so /shrug. Not sure why he'd lie. Maybe he just has bad info?

Haha. It’s nice to at least hear a regional airline recruiter twist things to sound worse than they actually are. Our CEO says this latest round of hiring is to staff growth that has yet to be finalized, and I personally doubt any of that growth will be in NYC with Skywest bringing their 175s and main line bringing their C series. Anyways I encourage you to checkout the other thread for the captain dates per base as well, since that’s important.

No, August was the earliest class date quoted to me.

If accurate, that kind of stake isn't enough that any single one of them would be considered an owner (plus where do you come up with the other 25%?)

And it'd still be helping an airline recruit to staff flying for competitors.

Is that even with factoring in Endeavor's commuter policies? I.e. positive space after first attempt, etc?

The positive space commuting at endeavor takes a lot of the stress and anxiety out of commuting and allows for easier planning but is still a major qol hit due to the extra time away from home. That said, Endeavor has a ton of commuters into NYC with overall positive job satisfaction, we have a few cool things in addition to the positive space commuting that cater to commuters.

That's great to hear. I know I'm going to get hosed on class seniority at EDV, though. The first two of my last four are "11". :(

Wholly owned isn't really a plus. You're owned by one airline and if crap hits the fan and the major wants to cut ties, well, you know what happens. Look at Comair. Republic has 5 owners (Big three, GE and Embrear). You have five eggs in your basket compared to one. Many of the people at Republic love the QOL since some months they have 19+ days off.
Now, commuting wise Endeavor beats Republic if you want to commute.

To the original poster. Do whatever is best for you.

The Endeavor/Delta DGI doesn't have a good pass rate btw. ;)

Good luck in your career choice.

The DGI hasn’t even started.

Did a quick pros/cons & napkin math between OO, EDV, and RPA. This is for my personal situation at least. Of course, upgrade times and things like that are moving targets. Please correct me if I'm wrong here:


Republic:
Year 1 55k - (45k + 10k bonus)
Year 2 55k - (50k + 5k bonus)
Year 3 54k - (51k + 3k bonus)

Total to date 164k

Year 4 96k (upgrade to captain)

New total to date 260k

Pros: Shiny Jet. Good schedules and contract. No ready reserve. No Junior Manning. Morale seems high. Pay is good. 2020 Captain pay is great if I ended up getting stuck there.
Cons: I'd have to live in Columbus Ohio to avoid commuting. To avoid commuting, I'd also need to defer upgrade until CMH CA slot opens (~3 years). I'd need to be at CMH for ~ 5 years as a CA to hold a line.


Skywest:
Year 1 40k
Year 2 42k
Year 3 82k (upgrade to Captain)

Total to date: 164k

Year 4 85k

New total to date: 249k

Pros: I'd be able to build PIC time faster at OO, hold a better schedule at DTW sooner, and not have to sit reserve. I also wouldn't have to sit at NYC.
Cons: Initial pay sucks. SkyWest seems to be reluctant to improve contracts. Morale seems low.


Endeavor:
Year 1 60k - (50k + 10k bonus)
Year 2 60k
Year 3 62k

Total to date 182k

Year 4 100k (upgrade to captain, using their 2020 CA pay rates on the 900)

New total to date 282k

Pros: Pay is obviously way better. DGI. People there seem very happy. Morale is high.
Cons: I'd have to commute to NYC for ~ 3 months out of training before I could hold DTW. I would likely choose not to upgrade to CA until I could hold dtw (~3 years). I'd have to sit reserve as a CA in DTW for a year or two after upgrading. I'd have to wait ~5 years to hold a line as a CA in DTW.

Whatever the interview thing is they have now. I know someone at Delta that says the EDV pilots need some help.

EDV Pilots need help? I’m glad the 300TT pilot who never has flown for an airline can tell us that. Your “someone” at delta must be feeding you false info

The Delta "person" is going off the previous SSP experience where it was a combo of miscommunicated expectations from management of what kind of interview it would be and sometimes lazy prep from pilots... Either way that perception can be hard to shake even with mitigating factors.

The DGI will be a fresh start for all and is just beginning.

Management frowns upon you using it at EDV. It's still stressful.

I’ve never had a problem. Just don’t abuse it and make sure to list for the jumpseat if it’s full. They can see how hard you try :eek:

As far as I’ve heard, only as much as they frown upon not wearing the hat. Aka no big deal. Some of the commutes here are impossible and the result of closed bases and they know that... eg MEM ATL.

Republic just ordered 100 new 175s, with options for an additional 100. Holy smokes.

When is Endeavor getting that bird?

Is there a link to the republic/endeavor contracts to compare the pay rates for the next couple of years?

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