Four year degrees at the regionals....
 

I'd love a good reference but I'm not sure if one exists. Does anyone have any idea of a study,survey, or whatever, that would indicate what percentage of pilots at the regional levels have four year degrees broken down by regional's with and without flow?

Or, failing that, would anyone care to give your best estimate - based upon pilots at your regional - identifying whether your regional has a genuine flow (i.e., not guaranteed app review or interview, but a guaranteed flow).

This isn't for a course I'm doing at ERAU or UND or some other nefarious reason, simply a bet with a fellow pilot. Got a bottle of single malt riding on the outcome though.

At Horizon, it seems that the majority of the pilots have a four year. Horizon recruits pretty heavy from UND and CWU. With no four year degree at the moment I definitely feel as if I’m in the minority. I have flown with a few “lifer” captains that dont have a four year, I’m sure that’s one of the main reasons they’re still at Horizon. In ground school I was the only one without a degree in the class. However, the new Alaska Pathway program which is essentially a flow post interview doesn’t require a four year degree.

When I was at SkyWest, I didn’t fly with a single Captain that didn’t have a four year degree or have their apps in at the majors. In ground at SkyWest, I cannot remember any one else who still needed to get a degree. It seems like most are smarter than myself, as they knocked it out before joining the regional grind.

6 different initial classes at 5 different regionals, none of which had flow at that time. Classes varied in size from 3 to 45 pilots. Probably averaged around 20, so around 120 total. I think at all, the first day of class everybody introduces themselves and gives backgrounds. I'd say, from what I remember, 90-95% of the people had bachelor's degrees or better. I remember one 21-year-old girl (my sim partner when I upgraded) had an associate degree. A couple guys had some college or tech but never graduated. I remember 3 enlisted guys from the airforce and army who didn't have degrees but none of them made it through ground school. The 2 airforce guys did something at the airforce one hanger and the army ranger guy flew jumpers in a twin otter or something (no IFR experience).

Other than the girl who was my sim partner, I'd say that none of the pilots I've been it class with without 4-year degrees was great at studying. A couple people might have been lack of effort, but for most, it was just bad strategy of how to learn. But, even so, very few pilots are weeded out in ground school. The real make or break time is sim and in sim prior flying experience matters more than a degree. I've seen lawyers, accountants, etc who came from being flight instructors and part 91 stuff who couldn't advance past the first sim lesson.

On the line the few pilots I'd fly with without bachelor's degrees were old timers who started out very early with the company, usually when it was a part-135 operation or very early part-121 days.

I don't recall ever flying with warrant officer guys who didn't have bachelor degrees, but the guys who have the associate's combined with the right flight experience probably do just fine, (just like the girl who was my sim partner).

So, from my experience, I'd say that nowadays at least 90% of new regional pilots have 4-year degrees. I'd say that the pilots who successfully make it through training without 4-year degrees have at least successfully completed some college (and of course have good flying skills). I know of nobody without at least 2 years of college who made it through a ground school I attended and I never heard of anybody flying the line with less than 2 years of college unless they came out of a 135 operation that gave birth to the airline. I'm pretty sure all those guys are retired now.

I’d say I know more people by a good majority that have or are working on a degree than the guys that refuse to get one

United stated about a month ago I think it was either 96 or 98 percent of their new hires have at minimum a 4 year degree.

It's at least 85% having the degree. I don't think I've flown with anyone who didn't have a degree in last few years. Also, Delta turned away 300+ pilots who had a degree in the SSP.

The people we see struggle in training are the midlife career change people, or military helicopter pilots.

The degree is not required at all for most regionals, and I bet you could get on with any regional of your choosing with some persistance.

Most regional pilots have degrees because they set out from the get-go to shoot for the majors, which have historically been very hard or impossible to break into without a degree.

Is there any sort of minimum GPA on the bachelors for mainline? I haven’t seen anything published but am curious

Certain top-tier majors definitely prefer 3.0+.

As far as I can tell, a 3.1 in gender studies trumps a 2.9 double major in aero-engineering and astrophysics.

So shoot for 3.0+ in all cases.

I had a 3.0 overall average; 4.0 in Social Studies, and a 2.0 in Academics.

At least, that's what I told my parents...:cool:

I have heard the top majors also give consideration to the reputation of the school.

This day and age, working at a regional, there isn't really an excuse not to get a degree. Online course work makes it very flexible and easy to do.

$$$. A lot of money for degrees these days, even online. That’s why some are taking it one class at a time. May not be wise in the long run, but with flight training already putting one in the hole financially it’s understandable to not feel comfortable with even more debt.

Delta weights your GPA both based on the major and where you went to school. A 2.1 aero eng degree from MIT Will trump a 3.8 sociology degree from eastern somewhere U.

won’t your pilot certificates eat up a whole lot of required classes for an aeronautical degree? I swore I saw somewhere that your pilot training can count for like 2 years worth of college credit

This program looks like if you are a CFI or Airline pilot, a huge portion of the credits have already been completed

https://www.uvu.edu/catalog/current/...t-emphasis-bs/

Not only that but time too. Lots of people have families and small children that make even online degrees next to impossible.

Classes while on the road is how I finished.

Thats not an easy thing to do. If I were on a hiring committee at a legacy I would think very highly of the people that accomplished a degree on the road.

That is what I am trying to do, but my airline and the plane I’m on makes it hard with most overnights being 10-12 hours. It becomes a time crunch when you try to get a few hours of studying in on top of eating, exercising and sleeping. At least it is proving difficult to me.

I’m not convinced it’s possible to do all of those on a 10 hour overnight, let alone college classes on top of it. Maybe an hour and a half of free time by the time you get into the room and if you’re anything like me working out before bed leads to being awake another 4 hours.

Yeah just let yourself get fat while working on the degree. Something's got to give.:cool:

Very true, that’s why I’m thinking this degree situation will take longer. Now that I am a new father my time at home is limited as well, just need to figure out the right balance. But this is a situation that many find themselves in I’m sure. I’m not one to regret things in life but I do really wish I would have knocked my degree out in my early 20’s. That was hard to do being in the military though, so it is what it is.

You don't need a degree to work at most regionals. Lack of money and not wanting to incur ridiculous student loan debt are good reasons to not get one, especially if you already have the job/career you want.

I feel your pain. Same situation for me. Captain now and retired military. I found out I have about 26 months worth of GI Bill left. I got about 56 credits worth years ago at ERAU, but have to retake some of those classes. I'm going to get my duff back into online school and finish it up.

Unless you were on the hiring committee at Delta. Then you'd throw the app in the garbage once you saw the degree wasn't completed in 4 years. Ridiculous, but true. Unless something has changed with that philosophy at Delta within the very recent past.

That is very short sighted.

Furloughs? Going out of business? Loss of medical? etc... not to mention being able to move up to majors or a better airline.

Really no excuse not to get an online degree while at the regionals.

Yeah I've heard about that. I think FedEx does the same thing. Given the number of retirements in the next few years I'm wondering if they can afford to maintain that practice.

It’s a good thing I only put my graduation date on my resume and not the years I was working on my degree. The last I heard the national average was six years to get a bachelors degree.

I believe airline apps which is what delta and united use asks for the start and end date of schools you attended. I think american and southwest use pilot-credentials which is probably similar. So they’ll find out one way or the other.

And. . . Over on the United thread, someone said currently 96 - 98% of their new hires this year have a 4 year college degree.

As some have said, “So you mean there is a chance to get hired without one.” Yeah, don’t hold your breath.

As some have said, “Maybe it will change in the future.” Yeah, don’t hold your breath.

If you want to get to the majors, go get your 4 year degree. Whatever it takes. Otherwise you may (likely will) get stuck where you really didn’t want to retire from.

If a black swan event should ever happen, you can’t get a medical, etc. you have something to fall back on.

The degree requirements will never be dropped as most young pilots entering the career have degrees, and the legacies have shown they care more about education, than experience. The legacies will simply hire pilots with less experience and a degree, vs more experience without a degree.

Also, I would get an aviation degree these days, the days of getting a backup degree are long over. You won't be using it on furlough, or if you lose your medical, etc.

That’s a shame because I was working full time when I was working on my degree, taking anywhere from one to five classes a semester. I guess I should scratch Delta and FedEx off my list then.

I would really like to know the percentage of college grads that were able to complete college in 4 years without help from Mommy and Daddy. My only friends that made it happen within 4 at least had their living expenses covered by their parents. To me this is a very dumb way to measure candidates, and it hurts those that may have taken even one extra year as they didn’t have everything given to them.

Unless Delta wants purebreds from upper class families.....

I had a professor say the average for a bachelors is now six years. Mine took me longer than that because I tried the pay as you go way and I was working full time so I was taking between one and five classes a semester. Towards the end I used student loans to finish quicker. I agree, it is a dumb way to measure candidates. In my opinion as a hiring manager at AT&T, I noticed those who took longer were usually more dedicated employees and less likely to give up. I had nothing given to me and was on my own for my college degree.

I gotta disagree with this. For sure I would get a backup degree, NOT one in aviation. I have a master of science I've used during furloughs and is relevant to a side flying job I'm doing right now. Over the years it has allowed me to not paint myself into a corner. Investing in a worthwhile degree is the best investment you can make in yourself and the most worthwhile insurance you'll ever pay for.

If you want my advice, the best thing an aspiring pilot could do is get a master's degree in some skill they could carry with them the rest of their life. Mine involves a lot of lab research (among other things). I had college buddies who went into wastewater treatment (sewage plants). Two of them eventually got into law enforcement, but every year they go to wastewater conferences and keep their certifications current. At least one of them plans to retire from law enforcement shortly and get back into water treatment. He always valued having the degree in his back pocket to fall back on. Plus having a degree helps advance in general even in his cop job. As I said in a previous post, I've used my master's when times were tough at the airlines. It hasn't always been the most lucrative, but it's better than doing unskilled labour when I was furloughed or didn't want to take a displacement or something. So, my advice is to do something like this with a degree and slowly build up flight time while doing it at a local airport. Make flight instruction your part-time job while getting the degree.

The 2nd best choice would get a bachelor's degree in anything but aviation and flight instruct part-time while doing that. My first degree was in history, which was kind of useless for a specific job, but it was something to build off of and getting a degree at a state college is far, far cheaper than going to an aviation college.

3rd best choice would be getting a 2-year degree at a technical college that teaches aviation. It would be useless for anything but 91, 135 and regional flying, but again a lot cheaper than a 4-year aviation college.

My last choice would be a 4-year aviation degree. It's useless for anything but flying and it's totally cost prohibitive. Some previous poster asked how many pilots had their educations paid for by their parents. I'm willing to bet almost 100% of the ones that went this route did. In my middle-class situation, there is no way on God's green earth myself, or my parents could afford that. And although I took on some student loan debt for college (also had the GI Bill and a part-time job) it pales in comparison to what kind of debt I would have had to take on to go to an aviation college. I'd still be paying it off! And, I guess if you have the silver spoon that could buy this plan for you then you really don't have to worry about having a degree to fall back on anyway because you have your family inheritance for that. I'm not trying to sound all Bernie Sanders, but just stating a fact that different people have different situations and different safety nets. I wouldn't go this route unless I had a HUGE family financial safety net!

Learn from other people’s mistakes. I did the 4 year aviation degree and ended up putting myself in a world of hurt. And I even had a parent that paid for it. I became a pilot right before 9/11 so I think everyone knows what the industry was like after that. I was making 25,000/yr at the top of the payscale with no upgrade in sight. I cut my losses and moved on, but it was very difficult with an aeronautical science degree. Please don’t listen to the propaganda from the big aviation universities and academies. They do not have your best interest in mind. Some form of a backup career or degree is an absolute must.

Not everyone can afford to get their ratings another way. If I could change one thing I would’ve dual majored or stuck around for a masters. I don’t regret getting an aviation degree because I would probably have not been able to finance my ratings otherwise.

Who doesn't? :p

Same.. lol